Forum discussion

LCA for Fossil Fuel Product vs Battery Product?

Dear All!

Crowdsourcing here to see if anyone has access to two LCA's that can be used to compare functionally equivalent consumer products: a fossil fuel powered to a battery one?  (A good product might be a car or stove, or a heating system with a boiler compared to a heat pump, perhaps?  Needs to include the B-use phase probably...)

This is in response to concerns I always hear from those skeptical of the energy transition, that battery/electric products have other environmental issues beyond climate change.  I agree those other issues should be resolved (with evolution of the technology, and that hopefully we create a clean circular system and the mining only occurs once) but I would think a clear LCA conparsion would be compelling to show the FF one is already worse.

Understood LCAs dont cover everything... but they cover a lot. 

Also, does anyone have a good paper on how LCA's compare to the plantary boundaries?  They are similar but not the same..

Best,

Sara

 

 

0

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Mon, 08/26/2024 - 15:29

https://www.cibsejournal.com/technical/the-meaning-of-life/ This is a CIBSE study, and multiple others have similar conclusions.   Pending on the refrigerant and leakage numbers, using heat pump is not always a positive, especially with current 410A.  Good news is 410A phase out date is 2025.  

Mon, 08/26/2024 - 15:59

Another example comparing battery electric to internal combustion vehicles - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2452321618301690 The break-even graphs in this paper are a little hard to wrap your head around but, once you do, super interesting! Jack Rusk Director of Climate Strategy, Associate Pier 1 The Embarcadero, Bay 2 San Francisco, CA 94111 +1 415-214-7225 [cid:G_190118_N24_webview_bb0303a9-c805-4097-ac97-3ab99950504f.jpg]

Mon, 08/26/2024 - 16:00

Not only is R410A (GWP 2088) being phased out, new refrigrerants are available today with great performance and low GWP. We're using R1233zd (GWP 1--that's right, 1) in our new 400k sf tower for Georgia Tech.

Tue, 08/27/2024 - 17:56

I don't think this is exactly what you are looking for, but I'm a fan of this paper from the Union of Concerned Scientists. It includes references. https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/2020-05/evs-cleaner-than-gasoline.pdf I also love the chart on this article (just keep scrolling): https://www.distilled.earth/p/a-fossil-fuel-economy-requires-535x Kristian Kicinski AIA, LFA, LEED AP BD+C (he, him) Associate Principal / Director of Sustainability direct: 206.536.1370 Send me files

Wed, 09/18/2024 - 19:39

The DOE's Vehicle Technology Office: Fact of the Week can be helpful because they provide supporting data. FOTW #1357, August 26, 2024: A Small Electric SUV Produces 52% Fewer Life Cycle Greenhouse Gas Emissions than a Comparable Gasoline Vehicle | Department of Energy Kimberly Martin, PhD, PE Senior Engineer - Innovation and Sustainability Keller – North America t: 443-951-4127 m: 365-440-4234 __

Wed, 09/18/2024 - 20:24

Have you checked out Greenercars.org? It's part of ACEEE. We use this score internally for new vehicles (min of 45 score). Scores use a LCA model- not just MPG https://greenercars.org/ Here is their methodology https://www.aceee.org/research-report/t1601 Stephanie Gowing(she/her) LEED® AP, LFA | Director of Sustainability | D 253.446.3544 | Schedule a virtual meeting here * Please note I will be on vacation from Oct 14-18th [cid:3ff05070-8473-4dea-81f7-a0b6384fd201] Absher has joined the Contractor's Commitment to Sustainable Building Practices. Find more information here CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION: This e-mail, including all attachments and replies thereto, are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2521 and are legally privileged. This information is confidential information and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, storage, copying, or other use of the communication is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please delete it in its entirety and notify sender immediately by reply e-mail. _

Thu, 09/19/2024 - 13:37

This video does a good job in a few minutes breaking down the problem, explaining the assumptions, calculations, and results. cites references etc. Over the past 5 years the US electric grid has gotten cleaner, so the numbers for battery products have improved. The video may be useful for skeptics. Are Electric Cars Greener Than Gasoline Powered Cars? https://youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM?si=PgzgiJXL7DMxURNF Electric cars are touted as a solution for reducing emissions and improving the environmental impacts of transportation, but are electric cars actually any better for the environment than gasoline cars? This video looks to answer three main questions: 1) Doesn't EV battery production cause a lot of emissions? 2) Don't electric cars get their power from fossil fuels? 3) Isn't lithium mining terrible for the environment? References: MIT Emissions Study - https://bit.ly/2zeYfqd Cradle To Grave Emissions Estimates - https://bit.ly/2rEhB4D Vehicle Production Emission Estimates (Low) - https://bit.ly/2yGoEh8 Vehicle Production Emission Estimates - https://bit.ly/2yoX6hC Vehicle Production Emission Estimates (High) - https://bit.ly/2dhB1Tu EV Battery Production Emissions - https://bit.ly/2yCMwSY End Of Life Emissions - https://bit.ly/2ETHh77 Annual Vehicle Use Emissions - https://bit.ly/2Sxo65K

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