Hi,
We have a project where we are converting a warehouse into an office, it will have a site area > 75% of the building area, infact the whole structure will be the office.
In case 2, LEED requires the monitoring of system where we are not going to install:
Lighting and Controls (Yes we can monitor)
Motor Load (No motor load apart from motor in AC)
Varible frequency drive operation (do the VRV AC fall into here? Cannot Monitor though)
Chill efficiency (no chiller)
Cooling load (does only relates to chiller operation? it will be almost impossible to measure VRV AC cooling load outside a lab)
Air and water econmizers (not installed)
Boiler efficiencies (no boiler installed)
Building related energy process and system (we will sub meter server load)
water risers and outdoor irrigation (not installed)
At it stands, we can only measure: total energy, lighting, AC (VRV units), and server load.
We cannot measure all the other as required by LEED simply because we do not have the systems. Do anyone have experience on this credit where system required to be monitored are simply not included in your site??
Any comments will be appreciated.
Julian
Edwin Wealend
Director & Principal Sustainable Design ConsultantCundall HK Ltd.
71 thumbs up
June 14, 2010 - 3:38 am
I'm still not sure that the Case 2 requirements to monitor all the items in the manual is correctly specified.
An interior project is much less likely to install a BAS or monitoring sytstem, nor is it likely to include many of the components of a centralised plant that would make sense to monitor items like boiler efficencies, cooling load, air and heat recovery economy cycles requested by the credit as minumum requirements.
Also the comment that this follows LEED-NC is not true, it is based on the old version of LEED-NC2.2 as NC-2009 now is not so specific in its requirements.
I think the LEED-CI tech committee has copied the old version of LEED without thinking through what is really required assuming that a tenat occupying >75% of a building must be a owner occupier of a large commerical office.
Does anyone have any experience in submitting Case 2 for LEED-CI 2009 or think we can make a case not to install air pressure monitoring and items not easliy monitored in a relatively small building <20,000ft2
Gordon Shymko
PrincipalG. F. Shymko & Associates Inc.
138 thumbs up
June 16, 2010 - 6:31 pm
Yes, there are serious problems with the EAc3 CI language on a number of levels. Rather than reusing/rehashing the NC 2.0/2.1 language as Julian points out above, Case 2 should have adapted the 2009 BD&C EAc5 language (also used for NC 2.2). It cites IPMVP Vol. III with specific guidance for the available options (Option C makes little sense for CI) and dispenses with the arguably flawed "old" list of prescriptive requirements. Instead, Vol. III inherently provides the necessary flexibility and discretion to deal with projects, including CI, on an individual basis.
The USGBC is aware of these problems and this posting will prompt me to follow up to see if any resolution has been reached regarding a correction. In terms of immediate advice, I would suggest following the 2009 BD&C EAc5 language (using IPMVP Vol. III) and adapting it accordingly. I can also confirm that the CI RG requirement for IPMVP compliance for Case 1 is also an error.
Tiombe Parrish
Sustainability Group LeaderJacobs
18 thumbs up
August 24, 2011 - 3:40 pm
Has there been any more movement by USGBC to clarify the language?
Gordon Shymko
PrincipalG. F. Shymko & Associates Inc.
138 thumbs up
November 21, 2011 - 3:57 pm
I know that this is something on the proverbial bike rack, but I am not aware of any more movement on it. Having said this, I also know that the USGBC staff has its hands full with LEED 2012 as well as other initiatives/issues. Perhaps a few communications with the USGBC on this matter would help to move it up the priority scale.
Luis Miguel Diazgranados
Green Factory125 thumbs up
November 28, 2011 - 12:17 pm
Searching through the internet, I found this document of the minute of a EA Technical Advisory Group meeting that took place on April 7 2011.
In point 4, the TAG "discussed a proposed addendum to LEED 2009 for CI EAc3 Case 2. Language in this version regarding submetering was not carried properly from CIv2.2, and the TAG agreed that alignment with 2009 BD&C EAc5 was necessary. A motion to approve an addendum for EAc3 clarifying the requirements was made by Nathan Gauthier and seconded by Gord Shymko. Motion approved by consent."
So it looks like an addenda was approved but it never came out. DO you think this can be considered as precedent setting?
http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=9386
Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11478 thumbs up
November 28, 2011 - 2:04 pm
I received the following comment from Gord via email":As you will note, I was part of that TAG discussion. It occurred just before the end of my term with the EA TAG. Unfortunately the purview of the TAG is limited. While the motion supports amending/correcting the language, there are other hurdles and committees that the change must clear. In this regard while the TAG discussion is significant, it by no means makes the change "official".
Luis Miguel Diazgranados
Green Factory125 thumbs up
November 29, 2011 - 11:35 am
Thanks for the advice Tristan and Gordon. I already wrote to the USGBC regarding this matter, insisting on the need to make an addendum about in this item. My arguments were the TAG meeting's suggestion and the fact that one of the topics that are more important now a days is performance measuring. Therefore it's necessary to be clear in the credits regarding this topic.
I hope others will follow Gordon's advice as well.
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5912 thumbs up
November 29, 2011 - 12:04 pm
Luis,
If you want to make this an official part of LEED you might consider submitting a LEED Interpretation.
Luis Miguel Diazgranados
Green Factory125 thumbs up
January 30, 2012 - 10:18 am
Hi everyone;
Some days ago, USGBC answered my inquiry regarding Case 2, and the TAG suggestion.
Here is their answer:
"Dear Luis Miguel,
Thank you for your inquiry.
We are currently working on revised language for this credit. Changes will be published in the April 1st release.
Thank you for your patience."
So, as you can see we need to wait till April 1st to find out what will happen with this credit.