In an interesting note, GBCI acknowledges that this will be a pain in the neck for project teams: "GBCI recognizes that this presents a challenge to design and construction teams as it is often not possible to specify or even identify-- the location of manufacture for a number of materials. It is hoped that manufacturers will respond to market demand for useful, credible product information."
What do you think of this ruling? How does it affect your product selection and documentation?
Keith Lindemulder
Environmental Business Development- LEED AP BD&CNucor Corporation
193 thumbs up
October 31, 2012 - 11:55 am
Interesting change. According to the last sentence - "Note that this ruling does not apply to steel products, which have an established average recycled content of 25% and do not require documentation on a per product basis when that value is used in the LEED calculator." Does that mean that if I use the 25% default recycled content value for a steel product I don't need documentation (same as before) BUT if I choose to submit something other than the default value I can still use regional or national claims?
Hernando Miranda
OwnerSoltierra LLC
344 thumbs up
October 31, 2012 - 12:30 pm
This ruling is ridiculous. Why did someone bother to ask this question. Everything worked okay before.
For recycled content, my approach for the last 10-years has been:
-- If the manufacturer does not provide plant specific data, use a multiple plant average if the average is a reasonable range, say +/- 10%.
-- If the manufacturer does provide plant specific data, use the data for the plant closest to the project site.
-- If the manufacturer does not provide plant specific data, and claims a wide range of content, DO NOT use the claim. (Use the minimum value --the USGBC says you can-- but I drop these type of wide range claims because it is clear to me they are not product specific.)
It is not worth the effort to try to get manufacturers to make plant specific claims. Yes, they should know what goes in and out of their process, but you'd be surprised how hard it is for the information to be obtained.
It is unreasonable to ask a manufacturer to claim 12.6% recycled content value. Many prefer to state a range, such as 10-15%, because the recycled content for a product can vary. One week the value might be 10%, next week 15%. Some manufacturers will not provide hard values because they think they are not being truthful.
It is not a LEED project consultant's job to verify claims made by a manufacturer. That is the manufacturer's job. The cost of following through is simply tremendous. No project owner will pay a consultant the additional cost to verify manufacturer claims.
The USGBC is off-the-mark. Averages have always been used for credits throughout LEED. A good average with a tight content range should be acceptable.
Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11478 thumbs up
January 11, 2013 - 11:59 am
USGBC rewrote this controversial LEED Interpretation (10246—link will only work once you log in to USGBC.org) with its January 2013 release.What I've heard is that the Interpretation was understood to be stricter than it was intended. The rewording is intended to fix this:"It is acceptable to use an average recycled content value stated by a single manufacturer for a single product.... industry wide or national averages are not acceptable for the purposes of LEED documentation."
Keith Lindemulder
Environmental Business Development- LEED AP BD&CNucor Corporation
193 thumbs up
January 11, 2013 - 12:16 pm
So will national or industry wide averages be acceptable?
Hernando Miranda
OwnerSoltierra LLC
344 thumbs up
January 11, 2013 - 12:43 pm
I see Keith is with Nucor. Nucor has a very good recycled content claims letter; product type and plant specific recycled content claims.
The LEED default for steel is 25% post-consumer content, based on old Steel Recycling Institute (SRI) U.S. industry averages. The LEED Reference Guide authors used BOF averages for all steel.
Since the early years of LEED certifications, it has been acceptable to use new SRI published data. If you could prove BOE was the method of fabrication, the higher recycled content inherent in that manufacturing process, was accepted by the LEED reviewers.
If industry-wide and national averages are not acceptable, then the USGBC needs to post an official addenda to the recycled content LEED credit. This would be a mistake. The USGBC needs to re-clarify the interpretation to properly address how steel has been allowed to document recycled content since the early life of LEED.
Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11478 thumbs up
January 11, 2013 - 12:57 pm
To clarify, if you read the full text of the Interpretation, the 25% default for steel is still in place. I think that revisiting this in the middle of LEED 2009 would cause more upheaval.Keith, can you clarify your question?
Hernando Miranda
OwnerSoltierra LLC
344 thumbs up
January 11, 2013 - 1:18 pm
Hmm, so we can no longer use newer SRI recycled content data for either BOF or BOE processes. A change like this would be better left to LEED v4.
Many steel manufacturers use SRI claims because they purchase steel from a large number of sources, and the sources are every changing. A company is always going to use the source with the best pricing.
If SRI data can no longer be used for claims I see continued controversy from the industry. Documenting the details for each vendor source is onerous because they have to get each vendor to make a proper claim. The effort is not worth the time, in my opinion.
LEED consultants should immediately start planning to achieve lower recycled content claims. The Recycled Content exemplary performance credit level of 30% is essentially unachievable.
Susan Walter
HDRLEEDuser Expert
1296 thumbs up
January 11, 2013 - 2:50 pm
It does not read like a change to the steel defaults or the way you can with specific documentation use a higher value for steel. To my reading, they took care of some of our concerns discussed earlier in the thread when the ruling first came out but left steel alone. If you can make a specific higher steel recycled content claim through documentation (and it sounds like you have) then it sounds like you can continue to do this.
What the revised ruling did was make things easier to document items like VCT with recycled content, ceiling tiles, etc. Where the recycled content jumps around a bit depending on recycled material availability. Instead of having to track your VCT to a particular plant for a particular run of product (old ruling), you can track your VCT to the plant and stop.
Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11478 thumbs up
January 22, 2013 - 12:27 pm
Given the ongoing questions about this Interpretation, I spoke with USGBC to clarify.The longstanding 25% default for steel is not changed by this ruling, as is clearly stated. If some projects have been able to use national average industry data to get higher defaults for steel or other materials approved, that has not been intentionally allowed in the past, and is the main issue targeted by this ruling.A project cannot use industry-standard recycled content claims for LEED documentation except for the 25% steel default.It IS allowable to use a company- and product-specific national average. For example, "all black widgets made by our company have at least 50% recycled content." You can claim 50% recycled content for that company's black widgets. If their red widgets are a different SKU, you can't extend the claim to the red widgets. If a range is given, i.e. all black widgets are 0% to 70% recycled content, then 0% must be assumed unless the company can provide additional documentation that the products used on your project came from a plant where a specific recycled content value is established.
Hernando Miranda
OwnerSoltierra LLC
344 thumbs up
January 22, 2013 - 1:33 pm
Manufacturers, not projects, have been allowed to use newer SRI data for the last 10 years; since LEED v2.0. Refer to LEED Interpretation #5519. The ruling does not preclude projects from using newer SRI data.
If SKU is now required documentation, many manufacturers will not be able to document that level of accuracy. The supply chains are not controlled by many manufacturers to feed only a specific SKU.
Let me give an example of a 0% to 70% range that should be accepted. A blue widget is made from multiple scrap sources. 33% of the purchases have 0% recycled content. 33% of the scrap has 70% recycled content, post-consumer. 33% of the scrap has 35% recycled content, post-consumer. The net content is 35% recycled, post-consumer.
Although a range is used, the above claim is specific. It should, and has been accepted, on my projects for more than 10-years. This is no longer the case.
As I stated before, projects should plan on documenting lower recycled content than is actually in their project because of this new "fix" the USGBC has developed. Assume one point lost, maybe two. Subcontractors and manufacturers will not be able to provide the level of detailed documentation demanded by the USGBC.
Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11478 thumbs up
January 30, 2013 - 12:02 pm
Hernando, LI #5519 is only applicable to NC v2.0. The new ruling #10246 is providing updated guidance that overrules #5519.I think the example you give where the manufacturer can't track recycled content to a single SKU is simply outside the scope of this LI. If a manufacturer could not track the recycled content input into the system to a product being produced by that system they would in fact have to claim a range, and that range may be 0% to 70% in the example. It is going to be advantageous for a manufacturer to find a way to track inputs to outputs to that a recycled content claim could be made.As a moderator's note for those who are following this conversation, I pruned this lengthy discussion thread to include only comments relevant to understanding the current meaning of the LI—so that it's quicker to follow and understand.