LEED After or Before?

Marcus Thanks for the reply. I sort of understand, but it seems that you are saying two things that differ at the same time. One - do the modelng later, Two- should do the modeling during design. I don't get how LEED is helping the design except to get you thinking in a direction to meet a credit but not designing necessarily. Take for example - a low budget project (relatively speaking-maybe tight would be a better word). I know where we need to be to meet the client's goals and budget and it ditates a simple design - nohing elaborate or expensive we can't afford to do. So where is the innovation, the options for other sytems maybe. They want LEED but don't want to spend too much. I move forward with my design and never look back wondering if I could have done it better. Don't get a chance to. Where was LEED in all this? Not there until the end? Interesting.

To add - I have been desiging to code and the energy code for years and telling the client what was needed for R values and energy savings. Nothing new there. Call it LEED I suppose or not. MAny engneers have the same reaction - "hey this in nothing new to us" For the rest of the team maybe some of it is new and at least LEED gets them on our page.

Obviously I am a skeptic. No surprise I am sure. I certainly understand the code and it limitations, but I also understand construction and its llimitations especially related to costs. Why would I suggest using a 40% energy savings design on a project. Unless the owner wants it and can afford it - then it makes no sense to do that. And inputting data for alternative systems requires a large amount of effort for fan energy, layout considerations, system constructiblity, impactst to the building design, and many more relative attributes. Where do I get those answers - not thin air, but from calculations and design engineering effort. Please don't minimalize that effort. I realize all you say about LEED at the end and I think it is a waste of time too. LEED may not dictate but the credit system does no matter what you say. I can't evaluate 40% savings in a vacuum. I suppose my architect wants the most for the least - go figure. So does the client. Doing the minimal is exactly want our charge is on this project. Certified is all we are attempting. Any other projects in the future will have to have the budget to do LEED and BUILD LEED. Without the money this is all a waste of time and energy. Sorry for the candid responses but I get my heat up when asked about LEED. It was invented on the shoulders of us who started it - engineers who have been making energy efficiency primary in our designs many many years ago. and today. What about the 1000's of buildings that aren't LEED. They are and can be energy efficient too - Just not GBCI Certified.

I appreciate al you say and thanks for the link and information thus far. I will get it done and learn from it. May the next one be more comfortable for me. Thanks.

This building is fixed in stone with location, glazing, r values. Attaches to an existing building. Not much left for me except lights and high eff systems. I too think LEED on this is a waste of time. If I ever get a chance to do "games" on a project as I have done in the past with other energy conservation measures for NECPA and other organizations, then that would be welcome. For now this project is as you say - "makes no sense". Thanks for the article and I see it can be done with the tools and proper design goals and LEED goals.

I suppose you are correct. It just feels like LEED is not being used correctly. Thanks.

Hey look, I was around in the 70's and we had this concept of Whole Building Design and Site and Envelope adaptive scenarios even back then. It only got important when GBCI created it. Yes it is the norm now, but it took some time for the gang to all get on board. Years in fact. I am happy that everyone is now working as a team on this. It used to be the only one concerned with energy use was the engineer who had to tell the team what they needed for lighting, hvac, and envelope. Now many more attributes contribute to the process and all of those stakeholders have a say. It is a big business now. GBCI got what they wished for and in the end the world is a better place no doubt. Not all buildings are suited for it or can afford to build this way but at least they can strive for it. LEED levels is what that is all about. Painlessly or not, it is a big job, big business, and there is no turning back. I am personally happy to see that accountability had now been included to correct the errors of models not meeting expectations. We have a long way to go yet.