Forum discussion
NC-2009 EAp2: Minimum Energy Performance
I am doing the energy model for a project. The project total area is “153,145 sf”, 25,346 sf area of the total area is condition and the other “127,799” sf area is unconditioned, “ventilation fan and louvers” are using for unconditioned area.
Please comments on it.
1. How can I model the ventilation system in Baseline and in Proposed model?
2. HVAC Baseline system depend on only condition area or the total area of project?
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Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5900 thumbs up
May 27, 2016 - 1:38 pm
1. This is modeled identically as a process load in both models. Since it does not affect the loads it is just a motor running for a certain period of time so schedule it according to how the fans are expected to run in the project when operational.
2. Conditioned area.
Muzamil Rafique
2 thumbs up
May 31, 2016 - 3:23 am
Hi Marcus,
Thank you for your comments.
i modeled the ventilation fan as a process load in both model.
project offices area conditioned by "VRF system", and offices area modeled as per design documents and baseline as per "Table G3.1.1A" .
please clarify some more issues regarding unconditioned spaces.
1. when i modeled the unconditioned spaces with VRF system, then “unmet load hours” increased by more than 300.
2. Can I use any HVAC system type except “VRF system” identically in baseline and proposed model for unconditioned spaces?
3. If I use any HVAC system type in project unconditioned spaces, then how can I model the Baseline HVAC system,its model as per "Table G3.1.1A "or identically model same specification in both energy model.
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5900 thumbs up
May 31, 2016 - 9:55 am
Unconditioned spaces do not have any heating or cooling equipment installed so they have no loads to meet.
1. You should not model the VRF system in unconditioned spaces.
2. You should only model any fans in the unconditioned spaces identically. You should not have any heating or cooling system in an unconditioned space.
3. You don't model any HVAC system type in an unconditioned space.
Muzamil Rafique
2 thumbs up
June 1, 2016 - 7:38 am
Thanks Marcus,
My project is denim factory.It process load is 945 kw. This process load is Denim coating and BENNINGER machines.if i model this process load in unconditioned "Hall" the energy saving is reduce.
1 How to model the process load ? Can i simulate the models with reduce process load?
2 If i use the "Exponential Calculation" which standard i follow for "VFD" based Denim machines. ?
"VFD machines are energy efficient.
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5900 thumbs up
June 1, 2016 - 8:52 am
1. How you model a process load depends on the software you use. Since it is located in an unconditioned space you could possibly perform the calculations outside the modeling software assuming it will not impact other energy use.
2. To show savings for a process load you must follow the exceptional calculation method. You must develop your own baseline for comparison and provide justification that you have selected a reasonable baseline. The baseline should be based on standard industry practice in your location. So in this case if installing constant speed equipment is the norm then that can be the baseline. However you will need to provide some evidence that is the case you can't just say constant speed is the norm. Establishing a reasonable baseline is often the hardest part of an exceptional calculation so I urge you to be thorough in your justification.
Muzamil Rafique
2 thumbs up
June 2, 2016 - 2:36 am
1. I am using "HAP" software. Model the process load in "Electrical Equipment" tab.
2. Unfortunately in our region still no establish any industry code for process load.
3. Can i follow the NEC standards or any other?
4. When i use the "Exceptional Calculation" for process load, then process load shall model in space or only separate calculation.
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5900 thumbs up
June 2, 2016 - 11:17 am
1. Ok I suppose.
2. There are really no industry codes for process loads anywhere in the world.
3. Not sure.
4. Whether you model it in the space or separately will depend on if it interacts with other loads in the space. If the space is unconditioned and there are not any heating, cooling, ventilation, etc. loads that are impacted then it does not have to be modeled in the space.
Abdullah Tahir
HVAC DESIGN ENGINEERIES Consulting
17 thumbs up
March 12, 2024 - 5:07 am
Hi Marcus
Can we model process load in HAP v6?
It has an Option to model to acumulative load in SYSTEMS
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5900 thumbs up
March 26, 2024 - 7:46 pm
We see process loads included in HAP models all the time so yes you can. Eactly how you do that is a better question for HAP technical support.