We have a University Dorm project and it is understood that we would be required to have at minimum 1 control for each dorm room. The mechanical system provided has 1 FCU for every 2 dorm rooms. The question is that within v2.2 there has been projects having this credit approved by using a shared/averaged controls set up with with this same mechanical system and the narrative as follows:
“Student dormitory rooms are provided with a four-pipe fan coil units with a space thermostat. Where a single fan coil unit serves two adjacent student rooms, a space temperature sensor is provided in each room. EMCS programing will allow for independent selection of the method of control for each of these fan coil units. Control method 1 (average) - control space temperature based on average of space temperature and an average of space temperature set points. Control method 2 (select sensor 1) - ignore space temperature sensor 2 and control from space temperature sensor 1. Control method 3 (select sensor 2) - ignore space temperature sensor 1 and control from space temperature sensor 2.”
Does this type of controls set up comply with v2009?
Thank you,
Patrick MacPherson
Senior ConsultantSustainable Design Consulting
13 thumbs up
April 29, 2013 - 1:47 pm
Can I please get a response to my question from almost a month ago?
Thank you,
Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11478 thumbs up
April 29, 2013 - 2:03 pm
Patrick, please see our forum FAQs. That said, I will ask around.
John McFarland
Director of OperationsWorkingBuildings, LLC
LEEDuser Expert
42 thumbs up
April 29, 2013 - 2:39 pm
Patrick,
Are the dorm rooms single occupancy or double occupancy? In other words, does the FCU that serves the 2 rooms serve 2 occupants or 4 occupants?
Dylan Connelly
Mechanical EngineerIntegral Group
LEEDuser Expert
472 thumbs up
April 29, 2013 - 2:40 pm
Probably need to do a CIR - have you checked the LEED Interpretation data base?
Lauren Sparandara
Sustainability ManagerGoogle
LEEDuser Expert
997 thumbs up
April 29, 2013 - 2:44 pm
Patrick,
Is the quoted area you have provided from a narrative you have submitted form a LEED-NC v2.2 project before and, if so, what was the language from the reviewer when they accepted it? I reviewed the Interpretations database and did not find any specific guidance on your question. You might want to take a look again and make sure I didn't miss it: http://www.usgbc.org/leed/developing-leed/interpretations
In principal if it worked for a NC v2.2 project it should also work in this case. They key is in proving that controllability - per room - exists. Based off of your description it does sound like controls exist in each room.
I agree with Dylan that the way to know for sure is to submit your own CIR to the USGBC.
Lauren Sparandara
Sustainability ManagerGoogle
LEEDuser Expert
997 thumbs up
April 29, 2013 - 3:24 pm
In looking at this closely it is not clear actually that real controllability ever exists for both rooms simultaneously. It sounds like controllability is an either/or scenario with one room having control and then the other not having control. The average scenario also does not seem to provide controllability that meets the intent of the credit either.
I would be happy to hear everyone's thoughts on this approach and to keep the conversation going.
Lauren Sparandara
Sustainability ManagerGoogle
LEEDuser Expert
997 thumbs up
April 30, 2013 - 12:21 pm
It's possible that this approach passed previously when dorm rooms were considered individual workstations and when compliance was based on controls for 50% of the individual workstations.
Do the dorm rooms have operable windows?
Patrick MacPherson
Senior ConsultantSustainable Design Consulting
13 thumbs up
May 1, 2013 - 11:45 am
Thanks for all the feedback!
John - there are 3 occupants, for every FCU there is 1 single occupancy & 1 double occupancy dorm room side by side.
Dylan - we did check interpretations and didn't see anything with regard to this type of set up, and we are considering a CIR but wanted to check LEED user first.
Lauren - the narrative language was from a V2.2 acccepted credit, there wasn't a response from the reviewer - it was just accepted.
Lauren - your point is why we are asking the question, wanting to be sure it will work for V2009.
Lauren - the dorms do have operable windows but they are limited to an 8" opening therefore they will not comply.
John McFarland
Director of OperationsWorkingBuildings, LLC
LEEDuser Expert
42 thumbs up
May 1, 2013 - 2:24 pm
Hi Patrick,
I don't think you comply with the requirements that 50% of the occupants have the ability to control their thermal comfort. With 3 residents (1 in one room and 2 in another room) and 1 FCU, you really only are providing for 33% of the occupants. I think some confusion may come from the LEED Online form where in Table IEQc6.2-1. Individual Controls, it has one list the spaces with no reference to the number of occupants in each space. The table is really setup for an office situation. The table should include a column for the number of occupants in each space. The credit requirements are clear...it's based on number of occupants having control, not number of spaces, and I don't think your scenario meets the 50% threshold for control.
All the best,
John
Larissa Oaks
Specialist, LEEDUSGBC
LEEDuser Expert
67 thumbs up
May 16, 2013 - 11:52 am
Hi Patrick,
I agree with John, this approach does not meet the credit requirements and will not be approved for v2 or 2009 projects.
I would recommend submitting a CIR if you would like to use this strategy.