It appears that there is a fairly major shift in the relationship between the tenant spaces within the project scope and the base building. In the past, all energy modeling for EA Credit 1.3 explicitly kept performance parameters of the base building and spaces outside the scope of the project identical to be sure they were energy neutral as it related to the CI submission. Now, the new energy modeling guidelines that are part of both the prerequisite and Credit 2 appear to penalize the CI submission for a poor base building and benefit the CI submission for a high performing base building.
For the record, i am interested in other's opinion's, as well as more conclusive responses from Tristan or others.
Can you please confirm the following:
1. In general are my conclusions above correct?
2. We should expect a differential between all chillers, boilers, base building AHUs, etc. since the baseline will be based on ASHRAE (not existing) and the Proposed will be based on reality.
3. We should expect a differential between building envelopes since baseline performance stems from ASHRAE and Proposed will be based on reality.
4. Lighting that is not in the scope of the project, should be modeled identically (energy neutral). This is different than the treatment of HVAC and Building Envelope.
5. There appears to be no change in the determination of the "Segment" with v4. The segment should be the smallest portion of the building served by the air-side HVAC system that serves our project. All water-side systems can be prorated.
Cheers, KB
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
March 15, 2017 - 10:09 am
Overall you are correct. This is outlined in the changes from 2009 to v4 in the Reference Guide. Your conclusions sound right to me but I have not researched each one.
Matthew Setzekorn
PrincipalEmerald Built Environments
May 25, 2017 - 7:02 pm
I downloaded the summary changes and there was no reference to the exception pertaining to the existing building envelope. The language online states "Exception: the baseline project envelope must be modeled according to Table G3.1(5) (baseline), Sections a–e, and not Section f." Section f being the part that allows the existing envelope to be used as is. I find the choice of the word "exception" to be confusing, if it in fact means the existing conditions can not be used.
We are looking for a more clear explanation of the intent if the "exception".
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
May 26, 2017 - 12:31 pm
I think the "exception" is LEED as the adopting authority is creating an exception to the application of Appendix G. It is excluding the use of the existing envelop in the baseline. I would guess that the rationale for this is that your project should not be rewarded with additional savings for choosing to be located in a building with insulation levels below that required by 90.1.
Takayuki Hirota
izumi CONSULTING, Inc.7 thumbs up
August 9, 2017 - 4:35 am
Hi. Sorry to reply to the old post, but I could not find in the reference guide stating "lighting that is not in the scope of the project, should be modeled identically (energy neutral)."
Could someone kindly tell me where I can reach the information?
Thank you.
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
August 9, 2017 - 10:00 am
I think that comes from the fundamental idea that CI projects are only held to and claim credit for what is in the scope of work of their project.
Takayuki Hirota
izumi CONSULTING, Inc.7 thumbs up
August 10, 2017 - 1:03 am
Thank you Marcus, for your prompt reply.
I understand the idea that we can claim credit for what is in the scope of work, however that is not reflected to envelope and HVAC in energy modeling already. It is like the selection of the high performance basebuilding is awarded as credit. So I thought lighting fixtures in the tenant space but outside of the scope of work could be treated as same as envelope and HVAC.
Reading reference guide carefully again, I found it saying "Existing conditions must be modeled as new construction in the baseline case, following Appendix G, for all components and systems." in the last sentence under BUILDING THE BASELINE ENERGY MODEL, FURTHER EXPLANATION, EA prerequisite Minimum Energy Performance, Page 135 of the Reference Guide I have.
Do "all components and systems" limit to HVAC? Couldn't that include lighting fixtures and controls?
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
August 10, 2017 - 12:23 pm
As I said I did not research each one. Based on that sentence you may be correct.
Vicki Rybl
Energy EngineerRDK Engineers/NV5
November 9, 2017 - 10:29 am
First off let me say that this thread is extremely helpful - possibly more clear than the reference guide on this topic!
We are modeling two floors (typical TI scope, fan boxes, lighting, etc) of office space going into a building (10 floors) that is designed for labs.
Should the model include the whole base building or just the tenant space (with adiabatic walls/floor/ceiling as necessary)? Since all building systems must be modeled as designed, we would use a fractional capacity based on SF for systems that serve more than just the tenant space. It seems that the savings % would be much lower if we modeled the whole building as compared to if we modeled the tenant space alone.
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
November 28, 2017 - 4:30 pm
You only model the tenant space. I think you could proprtionalize the load based on area if the loads are very similar throughout the building.
Jeff Ross-Bain, PE, LEED Fellow, WELL AP
PresidentRoss-Bain Green Building
28 thumbs up
January 9, 2018 - 4:10 pm
Regarding the envelope rule for LEED-CI V4 projects (i.e. Baseline envelope is ASHRAE min, not existing), I just did a little research and noted an addendum (#10454, 17 October 2017) that offers an alternative approach. This addendum allows using the existing envelope features but in doing so increases the minimum performance level to 5% (not 3%), and then requires that the point thresholds for EAc1 are increased across the board by 2%. The entire addendum is located here: https://www.usgbc.org/leedaddenda/10454
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
January 10, 2018 - 5:06 pm
Good to know, thanks.
Steve Gross
Interface EngineeringApril 12, 2018 - 5:30 pm
If we are not touching the existing envelope, but we are adding a low-e window film to the existing glazing, do we need to include the window film in our baseline model? Or can we keep the original windows in the baseline model?
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
April 13, 2018 - 10:57 am
I would think you could claim savings for this measure.