Hi Marcus et al.,
I received a question from one of our project energy modelers that I cannot answer -
Recently we have been receiving a new comment on EAp2 that states
“The HVAC equipment capacities cannot be autosized in the Proposed model.”
This comment brings up the following concerns. Our actual design documents include engineering of the building, safety factors, owner desired extra capacities, & good engineering practices for operation & functionality. If we are to put in the true design capacities (which are peak capacities plus safety factors not average operating conditions) but allow the baseline to auto calculate, we are never going to show energy savings as the baseline has none of the previously mentioned included. The baseline is bare bones and as minimal as one can get. Are we allowed to also put in the design capacities in for the baseline? For example, in past experience, the baseline requires more airflow because the equipment is a little less efficient and the envelope typically has a lower R value & better glazing than the proposed. However, if we have to hard input our design Peak airflows but allow the baseline to calculate airflows there will be skewed results. The reason I say this is that in general an interior room may require 50 CFM to meet its load. However, we know that diffusers need a minimum of 75-100 CFM for the air to actually reach the occupant and effectively cool the space. Therefore, our design would show 100 CFM and the baseline model would calculate 50 CFM. This does not seem like a fair and true comparison.
Can you offer insight and direction for how to adjust our model to address the reviewer concerns while still showing energy cost savings and reflecting our actual design conditions?
Matt Scott
EngineerN.E. Fisher & Associates, Inc.
18 thumbs up
September 18, 2014 - 2:03 pm
My two cents... Appendix G is pretty clear that if you have completed design documents, you cannot auto-size the proposed case, and you must model the HVAC system "as designed" including the scheduled capacities. Remember, the baseline capacities are to be over-sized by 15% for cooling and 25% for heating, so that should help make up for a little "over-engineering" on the proposed case.
You should still be able to squeeze some points out even with these restrictions. I've found the baseline systems pretty much always have lower airflows, but in the end the proposed systems are usually still more efficient and use less overall energy than the baseline theoretical systems.
Safety factors and "good engineering practice" enter a grey area of violating the energy code and engineering in extra capacity isn't really "green" and being green is the whole point; getting the certification is just a bonus.
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5909 thumbs up
September 18, 2014 - 2:12 pm
Agreed. If you oversize the Proposed systems to any significant degree you should pay a penalty. The software will calculate peaks and average based on the actual loads so you are not really comparing average to peak. You enter the full capacity and the software automatically matches the capacity needed to the loads in both models.
Khaled Fouda
Design Engineer, LEED AP (BD+C)Energy Concepts
9 thumbs up
September 18, 2014 - 2:25 pm
This issue brings a question to my mind. The multifamily building that I am working at right now has some unconditioned (no cooling) spaces and according to Appx.G I should model these spaces identically with the baseline. I am wondering if I will ever receive a comment from the reviewer about some proposed systems being (auto-sized) and being (15% over-sized).
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5909 thumbs up
September 18, 2014 - 2:41 pm
The reviewer will check the proposed system capacities against the information in the mechanical schedules to ensure that the proposed is modeled as designed. If they are only slightly off you should not get a comment however.
There are times when auto-sizing proposed systems is appropriate. Like when you have to model a space that does not have a mechanical design identically to the baseline system.
Saju Varghese
SUSTAINABILITY COORDINATORJALRW Eng. Group Inc.
39 thumbs up
October 13, 2014 - 5:49 pm
What is the threshold that the reviewer consider reasonable in terms of capacities and airflows? 10%?
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5909 thumbs up
October 13, 2014 - 8:32 pm
For capacities and airflows I would say under 10%. For fan power it should be identical or explained.