Has anyone wrestled with the fact that LOv3 PIf1 reads like it is intended ONLY for all-new projects? We have an addition/renovation to a large hospital and none of the questions asked deal with that sacred "LEED Project Boundary" so often referenced in the past. Just for one example; our $5M addition has no new parking, but the question asks "How many parking spaces dose this building has?" The ONLY choices are (a) know what they really meant to ask and answer that instead of the question asked, or (2) answer the questions asked and know that some of your credits will get challenged!
On a related front, we are wrestling with HOW to comply with PIf1 Energy usage data reporting because the area of addition/ renovation will not be separately metered, and reporting usage by the ENTIRE hospital is utterly meaningless: What to do? Anyone? Thanks
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Carrie Webster
Moseley Architects57 thumbs up
June 14, 2011 - 9:47 am
I think that Minimum Program Requirement #2 is going to cause you some problems. It states "The LEED project includes the new, ground-up design and construction, or major renovation, of at least one commercial, institutional, or high-rise residential building in its entirety." That triggered a large discussion about how to handle additions. They have released multiple supplemental guidance documents on additions and whether/how they qualify for LEED certification. For example it must have a separate name and they also discuss separate metering so you can comply with the energy/water usage reporting requirement. I see that they have just updated the supplemental guidance so I haven't read through the most recent version yet, but you can find it on the MPR page here: http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=2102
Andrew Gil
Architect, Associate, LEED AP BD+C. USGBC NY Upstate Board of DirectorsHOLT Architects. P.C.
63 thumbs up
June 14, 2011 - 4:52 pm
Carrie, Thank you so much for the heads up on the June revision of the MPR and the MPR Supplemental Guide. I am deeply disturbed by the thought of possibly having to abandon ship 12 months (and how much of the Owner's money?) into our efforts because the USGBC revised their MPRs! I've looked through both, but do not see any reference to separate metering; can you help me out and point me to that? Thank you!
Carrie Webster
Moseley Architects57 thumbs up
June 15, 2011 - 8:46 am
Andrew - check page 19 regarding the "entirety" requirement, and then the definition of "physically distinct" in the glossary. There it talks about separate lighting/HVAC/plumbing and sub-metering requirements. If these truly cause problems for your project definitely find someone at USGBC to talk to before "abandoning ship". Somewhere along the way they did state that it is not their intention to exclude certifiable projects and that they were willing to discuss unique situations. Good luck!
Andrew Gil
Architect, Associate, LEED AP BD+C. USGBC NY Upstate Board of DirectorsHOLT Architects. P.C.
63 thumbs up
June 20, 2011 - 6:29 pm
Carrie,
I REALLY don't want to sound unappreciative of this fantastic website aned your knowledgeable help, BUT.........after preparing myself to disavow LEED foreverafter, I rattled cages at GBCI, getting more andmore confirmation of EXACTLY what you said (e.g. MPR 2) until I finally sent a "I-can't-believe-your-doing-this" nastygram and immediately got a phone call from someone who asked what the project was and then "oh, no, of COURSE, not", the energy reporting excemption is still there; it;s at the very bottom of PIf1, where you select "exemption" and then separate water and energy categories appear to select.
Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11478 thumbs up
June 20, 2011 - 10:43 pm
Andrew—forum moderator here. Your post is a little confusing. Can you share more clearly what the outcome was for you? Did GBC simply say "no problem" in the end on MPR#2 despite policies to the contrary? I am not surprised, but at the same time, Carrie's advice was also spot on, both on what the MPR says and on checking with GBCI.
Andrew Gil
Architect, Associate, LEED AP BD+C. USGBC NY Upstate Board of DirectorsHOLT Architects. P.C.
63 thumbs up
June 21, 2011 - 9:18 am
Tristan, ABSOLUTELY! Glad to help others, as hey have helped me. The summary is:
1. Last fall I read the MPRs and sent to a project Owner, advising of greater Owner involvement, responsibility and commitment, but also saying that the most potentially disturbing rqmnt, of reporting energy & water use data for 5 yrs, had an exemption for when that info was not available.
2. As I began work on, this month, on LOv3 PIf1, I came to the part that offers three options, NONE of which had an exemption. It looked as if the Owner HAD to do what he could not do (without spending a lot of money to add meters to the project already under construction).
3. I asked GBCI if they had eliminated the exemption, maybe 6 times, via 2 routes, but could not get a reply, so I joined LEEDuser and submitted the question, only to get a more worrisome reference to MPR 2 with the implication that maybe our project would not be compatible with LEED NC.
4. After asking GBCI another 2,3 times, I finally got a reply, but with the SAME reference to MPR 2 with the implication that maybe this project wouldn't qualify for LEED NC.
5. I've done 3 silver, 1 gold and 1 platinum certified buildings so I was really dumbstruck and sent a nastigram out of anxious desperation.
6. Sarah Alexander, Director of LEED Certification called me and, while talking with her, I read MPR 2 and said that every sentence either didn't apply or was not a concern. She then asked me what the project was and when I described it, she said that it sounded fine and asked me what the basis of my concern was; I told her that I had been stopped short by the lack of an energy reporting exemption and she said that it IS still there: As you read PIf1, you come to the part where you have to select 1 of 3 options; that stopped me, everyone else on our team, and the Owner's facility engineer. Sarah told me that the exemption is not near the 3 options that require selecting, but at the very bottom of the form, where one only goes to "save form" !
BTW, she DID clarify that LEED-NC will be getting a lot more rigorous about allowing LEED Project Boundaries that include additions and a misc. scattering of existing spaces being renovated, but with overwhelming relief sweeping through me, I missed the chance to ask if (a) such projects 'need not apply' or (b) if those projects need to exclude the renovation areas from the LEED Project Boundary.
If this reply to too lengthy, please fell free to excerpt as appropriate. Thanks, Andrew
Andrew Gil
Architect, Associate, LEED AP BD+C. USGBC NY Upstate Board of DirectorsHOLT Architects. P.C.
63 thumbs up
July 14, 2011 - 4:29 pm
Dear LEEDuser & Others,
I have a follow-up question that my gut tells me is worth a CIR, but it seems kind of kooky that our client should have to pay that much money just to find out how to apply the new June 2011 MPRs to the LEED Ratung System: If LEED-NC has shut the doors on projects that combine additions with renovations (as was recently corroborated by Sarah Alexandar, GBCI Director of Certification), then what does one do, for example, with regard to SS-4.,1 if there are showers and lockers in the existing facility but not in the addition? Abandon the credit?
We're having enough problems with trying to get our engineers understanding how to analytically split the HVAC and control systems that are covering 4 existing operating rooms being renovated and 4 new operating rooms, so that we can "leave out" the renovation part of the project, so as to comply with the MPRs! CRAZY! Thanks to all.