shower in adjacent existing building

Lyle, refer to the question from Jorge Calderon below (Dec 2 2014), and the comments. Looks like yours is a similar situation, and you will have to account for the FTEs in the adjacent building at least for the showers. For the bike calculations we have had success by providing signage that indicates the allocated spaces are "reserved for staff and visitors of Building X". Good luck.

I have successfully documented this, for LEED CI 2009, 2 years ago. We did need to submit a narrative from the landlord, stating that all of the employees of the LEED certified space were allowed free access to the showering facilities located in the other building. We also submitted an audit we conducted, as to how often the showers were used throughout the course of a 6 month period. This is because if 100% of the campus population was included in the calculations, the number of showers would have been insufficient. We were able to show that, based on 100% occupancy by the new LEED certified space, in addition to the number of average users that typically used the showers from the remainder of the campus, the calculations did still qualify for the minimum threshold requirement.

I believe so. Here's what we received from our LEED reviewer on a similar situation (though in our case the "other" building was also LEED certified): "To earn points under WEc3, all fixtures necessary to meet the needs of the addition occupants must be included, even if they are located within the existing building". But, here's more: "if the LEED project's occupants are using fixtures located within the existing building, all fixtures used by the LEED project users would need to be factored in to the calculations for WEc3, not just the allotted showers. Only fixtures located within the addition/LEED project's scope would need to be factored into the calculations for WEp1."

That is a very valid follow up point - I failed to mention that we did also have to replace the existing shower fixtures in the adjacent building (though technically outside of our LEED boundary), as they did need to count towards our water use reduction calculations.

Just my two cents worth as to the amount of effort required for this: I think it'll depend on the number of FTE in the neighboring building. If there are enough showers in the neighboring building based on the calcs. per SSc4.2 for the total number of FTE using those showers (FTEs combined between the two buildings), then it shouldn't be too much work at all. You've got the same owner, so the letter is easy to come by. The water calcs will just be for your building as you're doing anyway, but you'll include showers for YOUR project's FTEs with the default values with the flow rates as installed in the neighboring building. Those showerheads could, worst case, be replaced for not that much money. (Home Depot sells the Delta 1.5 gpm showerhead for less than $10 each...) or even in-line flow reducers could be installed (similar to replacement aerators for faucets). Seems like a pretty inexpensive way to pick up a point that really will have added benefit because you'll be reducing water consumption in both buildings! Of course if you don't have enough showers in the neighboring building per the calculations in SSc4.2 based on the combined FTE numbers, then it will indeed be more work... But still perhaps something to keep in your back pocket if you get down to needing one more point or so...

I'm hoping others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that two different calculations are getting confused here. Calc 1: SSc4.2 (assuming it's a NC commercial project): "Provide showers for 0.5% of FTE occupants" -- so you'll add FTE(neighboring bldg) + FTE(New LEED Project) and then take 0.5% of that to determine how many showers you need. [0.005 * (FTE(neighboring bldg.) + FTE(new LEED Project))] Calc 2: WEp1 Showers: 0.1 FTE Uses/Day -- this is only based on the FTE in your New LEED Project. The water use from the FTEs in the neighboring building stays at the neighboring bldg. and has no impact on this new LEED building. But the FTEs in your new LEED building use a certain amount of water each day at the building, even though technically the shower water is going through a different building's meter. And I believe you can ignore the other flush/flow fixtures in the neighboring building other than the shower. (I guess perhaps it might be more proper to assume that people go to the bathroom before they shower, so you could say that the 0.1*FTE(new LEED Project) shower AND use the toilet at the other bldg.'s flush rate one time each day, and then those same number of 0.1*FTEs would use it one time less at your new LEED project, but I'm not sure the LEED Reviewer will require that... Does that make more sense?

Assuming you're still in the preliminary submission round, I would take the straightforward approach on WEp1 and simply include the shower in your main fixture group and use the default values. Personally, I would not bother with separate fixture groups at this point. If the LEED Reviewer wants you to include any lavs or water closets from the other building that the Showering-FTE might use, they'll let you know what to do during the preliminary review. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

I apologize if I've missed an LI that specifically reversed the guidance on provided in the reference guide for WEp1/c3 or the 2011 MPR guidance for MPR3, but both clearly note that domestic water fixtures located outside the LPB are excluded from WEp1/c3 calculations, even if they are used to determine compliance for SSc4.2. Michelle is correct that for SSc4.2 you'd need to determine if there are enough showers and racks to serve the total population using the shared resources. The only time you need to include fixtures outside the LPB in LEED v2009 is for points on a CI project or if you don't have ANY domestic fixtures inside the LPB on an NC project (then you must look to any neighboring fixtures that may be used to get points). I hope this helps.

Oh yes, that's right! Stacey's reference above was for a CI project, not a BD+C project! So yes, showers will NOT be included in the WEp1 calcs. However, I think you still should plan on demonstrating that you have enough showers to meet both buildings' FTEs. I don't know for sure if the LEED Reviewers will require it, but it doesn't feel "right" to not do those calculations, whether or not they're technically required. In my mind, it's just like the bike racks or preferred parking -- there have to be enough for everyone or they have to be labeled as just being for a certain group (i.e. if the bike racks are at a different building, there have to be enough for both buildings or the bike rack has to be labeled as just for that building's occupants. Sam thing for preferred parking if the parking area serves more than just the LEED building...) I feel like if there's a requirement for a min. number of showers for a certain amt. of people, then that should apply based on however many people have access to the showers (ie. combined total FTEs of both the existing building and the new LEED building). Again, I don't know that it's technically required, but to me it just doesn't feel right to not have to count the number of people in the building with the showers when having to determine how many showers you need. (Of course if you don't technically have enough showers for the combined FTEs, then submit it anyway and cross your fingers! (and maybe reference LEED Interpretation ID#2500...)) Please let us know what they end up requiring for the showers and good luck!

The issue of borrowing showers from neighboring buildings has come up for one of my projects during the design review. It received the following technical advice "The plans indicate that two of the showers are in an existing building adjacent to the LEED project building. ...Provide supplemental calculations confirming that sufficient shower facilities have been provided to serve all FTE occupants with access to the amenities, including individuals who are not part of this LED project." My project is on fairly open a medical campus, so I’m struggling to figure out who are all the FTE with access to the amenities, e.g. the project’s “SSc4.2 FTE boundary”. Three of the five showers required for the LEED project are in the LPB, the project is borrowing two from the existing building next door. The existing building adjacent to the LEED project is a central hub for the campus. I’m afraid my “FTE boundary” might be the whole campus FTE. Does that seem right? Or can I limit my calculations to the specific FTE in the existing building containing the borrowed showers? Once I determine the “FTE boundary”, which metric do I put to it? Is the entire campus held to the 0.5% shower threshold, even though there are no other LEED projects on campus? Based on other comments on LEEDUser, it would seem so. Or is it enough to combine existing shower usage patterns (to show the existing FTE have adequate showers) plus a percentage of the LEED project’s FTE with the same usage patterns to hopefully still equal enough showers. (Existing shower usage per existing building FTE) + (Existing shower usage per percent of LEED building FTE) = Showers required I hope that makes sense. Thanks!