Good morning. I am modeling an Elevator with Glass Enclosure with an exterior Curtain Wall and trying to figure out what is the best approach to (1)accommodate/capture the glass enclosure when creating the glazing material and (2) there is an external curtain wall with glazing as well. I am not sure if I should create the curtain was as a Fin or an overhang. Any feedback and suggestions is appreciated.
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Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5867 thumbs up
November 15, 2018 - 2:55 pm
I am not sure I understand the configuration you are trying to model. It sounds like the elevator shaft is inside the exterior curtainwall and the elevator shaft enclosure is also made of glass? If so I would not worry too much about getting the shaft materials exactly right as it is just an interior partition and will likely not have much of an impact on energy use one way or the other. I definitely do not understand the part about modeling a fin or overhang?
David Eldridge
Energy Efficiency NinjaGrumman/Butkus Associates
67 thumbs up
November 15, 2018 - 4:43 pm
I think a step back first - what decision will be made based on the modeling results, and are you modeling the rest of the building too and this is one aspect of it, or is this the entire model?
If you need information about light and/or energy that comes through the curtain wall and then into the elevator shaft and/or cab you may need to use some specific programs, not all of them are able to model sunlight through multiple surfaces.
Fatou Jabbie, | Technology | Design and Engineering Plan Reviews | Energy Code Compliance | Sustainability | LEED AP BD+C
Founder and PrincipalUSL Technology Inc.
3 thumbs up
November 16, 2018 - 9:39 am
Marcus, sorry for the confusion about the fin and overhang. I am modeling the whole building for NC-2009, and using Bentley AECosim Energy Simulator
The exterior curtain-wall assembly is in an insulated metal panel mounted on CMU Wall aspart of the envelope. The elevator hoist-way enclosure is made of glass. I was wondering what is the best way to (1)model the exterior curtain-wall since i is not a fenestration and not really being associated with an opening/partition? and
(2) Do I assign the curtain-wall construction as part of the elevator, since it is layered in front of elevator hoist-way glass enclosure?
(3) What is the easiest way to construct/create the glass enclosure materials and attribute it to the elevator?
Fatou Jabbie, | Technology | Design and Engineering Plan Reviews | Energy Code Compliance | Sustainability | LEED AP BD+C
Founder and PrincipalUSL Technology Inc.
3 thumbs up
November 16, 2018 - 9:46 am
David,
Yes, I am modeling the whole building and the curtain wall and elevator glass hoist-way enclosure is just part of it. And yes, I need to create both features and model the light and/or energy that comes through the curtain wall and then into the elevator glass hoist-way enclosure/or cab.
The software am using is AECosim Energy simulator by Bentley. I seems to be a bit challenging or maybe not even doable using this application. I am hope I there are different methods and/or other software I could use for to model sunlight through multiple surfaces.
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5867 thumbs up
November 16, 2018 - 12:13 pm
1. This sounds like a mostly a wall assembly. So you will need to determine the whole assembly U-value and model that as a wall. There is usually more than one what to do this in most software.
2. It sounds like you have a glass elevator shaft next to a curtainwall system that is fenestration. I would guess that you can't use the curtainwall as the back of the shaft, so the shaft is a separate enclosure next to the curtainwall glazing. Thermally they would be separate but the solar radiation through the shaft would need to be accounted for as well as the visible light transmission. In your software can you build interior partitions that are made of glass so that you can assign the glazing properties of the shaft enclosure? Essentially this is not very different than a borrowed light scenario with an interior partition.
3. I would think you should be able to create an interior partition made mostly of glass to simulate the effect of the elevator shaft. I would not worry at all about the affect on the elevator cab as this is so minor an impact as to be basically irrelevant.