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Sustainable MEP Leaders

Electrification Needs - MEP Equipment

All, today is the day I had committed to sending out the DRAFT request to equipment manufacturers of what is needed for full electrification.  I apologize that I didn't have time or focus to get my thoughts together till now (I had intended to share this with Chris and others prior to sending to the full group, but just didn't get my thoughts down till now).  At any rate, see below my first pass at what we would be requesting of manufacturers for the future electrification of the market place.  Please review, comment, question, add, etc.  This ended up being briefer than I initially thought it might be, but that may be good. Thanks all!

 

HVAC:

  • Heat Pump Equipment tested and rated to 0°F OA and below:
    • VRF – full heating mode
    • Air to Water Heat Pumps
    • Air to Air residential heat pumps (including PTAC replacements)
  • Air to Water Heat Pumps capable of producing warmer water at 0°F:
    • 100°
    • 120°F
    • 140°F
  • Increased HP efficiency in heating mode at colder temperatures (focus on equipment operation for both cooling and heating across OA temperature ranges)

 

Domestic / Service Hot Water:

  • Water-to-Water Domestic Heaters (ASME rated, capable of using CW loop to heat Domestic HW, Domestic/Potable equipment with double wall HX in place)
  • Air to Water Heat Pump heaters with a focus on higher instantaneous capacity (requiring less HW storage)

For all equipment, provide US relevant certifications and testing.  Including but not limited to:

  • NFPA 70
  • ASHRAE 15
  • ASME
  • UL 465
  • AHRI 
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Luke Leung
Principal
Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP
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Thu, 02/13/2020 - 19:27

RoseAnn How do my colleague Stephen Ray can join this discussion? LUKE LEUNG, PE, LEED Fellow, P Eng DIRECTOR SKIDMORE, OWINGS & MERRILL LLP 224 SOUTH MICHIGAN AVENUE CHICAGO, IL 60604 T (312) 360-4121 LUKE.LEUNG@SOM.COM [cid:image001.png@01CF9071.6FB46030] The information contained in this communication may be confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please return it to the sen­­­der immediately and delete the original message and any copy of it from your computer system. If you have any questions concerning this message, please contact the sender. Fr
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Donald Posson
Vice President
SmithGroup
LEEDuser Premium Member
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Thu, 02/13/2020 - 19:38

That is fantastic news RoseAnn!

Thu, 02/13/2020 - 19:46

Agreed, this is great.  And I definitely support a common language / response from multiple countries/regions.  
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Luke Leung
Principal
Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP
LEEDuser Basic Member
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Thu, 02/13/2020 - 20:18

Though it may be a few steps away, the idea of a "global" MEP SDL network is intriguing.  Exactly for the reason mentioned by our Australian counterpart, and maybe for global insights from others?
Best, LL
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Sarah Gudeman
Principal | Practice Lead
BranchPattern
LEEDuser Premium Member
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Thu, 04/02/2020 - 15:46

Hi All. Hope you're staying safe in these times of rapid change and uncertainty.  Griffin Teed (from JB&B who is assisting Chris with this effort) and I had a chance to catch up today and came up with some next steps. I would appreciate your feedback and thoughts on these next steps to structure ongoing work on this item... 
  1. Post on SMEP forum - what I'm doing right now - to determine manufacturers & recommended contacts for additional information and advocacy. The SMEP Electrification Outreach Google sheet is being actively maintained and serves as a central repository for information. 
  2. Create a "task force" of SMEP leaders and schedule ongoing check-in calls for this effort. - Wondering if this should just be SMEP leaders or if we invite others (UL, ORNL, NYSERDA) and / or manufacturers also?
  3. Share created SMEP Electrification Equipment Input Google form with interested manufacturers and equipment reps, so they can fill in information on current equipment - this form feeds information directly into the Google sheet mentioned in Step 1. Any of our SMEP leaders or advocates can share this link, IMO it should be widely available so we can get as much structured input as possible to...
  4. Establish metrics for tracking of improvement over baseline condition. - Eventually we'll have enough informat
  5. Create a public database of equipment that supports electrification - long term goal that is beyond my capabilities and will need to be supported by BuildingGreen.
  6. Continue to reach out to other interested contacts to join task force / future conversations. 
  7. Develop update(s) to the original letter and schedule for updates.
  8. Update database and track additions of equipment and improvement over time. 
  9. Track electrification grid support by region over time?
  10. Set up recurring (quarterly?) phone calls with manufacturers group to discuss progress. - Does this need to be a separate call or group from task force mentioned in #2 above? Are there other manufacturer's organizations that should be targeted as a different effort? 
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Sarah Gudeman
Principal | Practice Lead
BranchPattern
LEEDuser Premium Member
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Mon, 05/17/2021 - 19:10

Reviving this old thread on equipment-specific electrification. Rob Tanner (Marketing Director, Johnson Controls) is really interested in meeting to discuss their company's ongoing 'voice-of-customer' research.  I asked what the specific talking points and goals of that conversation would be, to which he replied... ---------------------------------- Market
  • Are you seeing a movement to electrification of buildings?
  • How do you see the electrification market’s current state?
  • How many of your projects are being designed as electric-only?
  • What are the market drivers?
  • What is the impact on growth of the heat pump system designs accordingly? 
    • Distributed Water: Air-source? Water-source?
    • Packaged DX: Air-source? Water-source?
    • VRF?
    • Combinations of the above?
System & Product
  • All-electric System Design options? Your considerations of these options?
  • Product needs? Capacity? Temperatures?
  • Modular? Features? 2-pipe, 4-pipe, 6-pipe?
  • Controls system implications?
Offerings in the Marketplace
  • Who are the leading manufacturers?
  • Why are they leading? Product Strengths? Representation Strengths?
  • What are the product gaps vs your needs?
Advice & Next Steps for Johnson Controls
  • Where should we focus our efforts to fully support your needs as a Consulting Engineer?  needs of Building Owners?
---------------------------------- Anything in here sparking interest in my setting up a meeting with JCI to talk through these topics? 
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Kim Shinn
Executive Principal and Senior Wizard
TLC Engineering Solutions
LEEDuser Premium Member
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Mon, 05/17/2021 - 19:44

Sarah   Has this JCI guy seen The Letter?  Has he coordinated with Nick Staub, the other JCI guy that reached out to us? In other words, rather than us talking to one regional JCI guy after another, can we be assured that whatever we tell this guy we don’t have repeat to other JCI guys wandering into our various offices?   Rather than doing some sort of Zoom call with this guy, would we be better served to turn this list of questions into a Google Doc or survey that we can input our various responses to, then let him take that away and come back with some more focused discussion?  Or maybe devote one of our upcoming check-in hours  (next one June 8) to discussing his questions among ourselves and then giving him that feedback?   Kim
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Sarah Gudeman
Principal | Practice Lead
BranchPattern
LEEDuser Premium Member
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Tue, 05/18/2021 - 13:53

He has seen the letter. I also directed him to fill out the Google Form with what products JCI already has available.   I totally agree that us devoting time to call after call is not an outcome anyone wants. I was trying to get out of this one also, but in Nadav's words he was being "pretty aggressive, still asking to talk with someome" which made me even less interested. My purpose for posting the above was to generate exactly this discussion to happen - though in hindsight I wasn't explicit on that portion of the ask.  So I think the question is... how do we want to handle direct engagement with manufacurers on this? 
  • Do we hand them off to RMI who is [maybe] starting to work on a concept Decarbonization Technology Database?
  • Do we continue to collect data on our own? The Google Form only has 4 responses so far... obviously manufacturers are more interested in 'meeting to discuss' than filling out the form. 
  • Do we use the list of questions to generate responses as a 'phase 2' of the letter? 
  • Other?
 

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