Your analysis of the draft is great, but few comments on Cx. There are many major changes to the Cx requirements. These changes will greatly affect the commissioning process, scope, schedule, and cost. Has there been any response on the Cx portion, and if so where are they located. Thanks.
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Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11474 thumbs up
December 13, 2010 - 12:00 pm
Doug, I would love to see someone like yourself who really knows the subject to expound on what the key changes are, and what you think of them. Any takers?
Doug Hampton
Cx AgentAlvine Engineering
25 thumbs up
December 22, 2010 - 2:08 pm
Tristan, how would I go about uploading my firms review comments? Also, for future reference, it would probably be easier to review and make comments if the document was arranged in an outline format with numbers and letters. Thanks for your time.
Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11474 thumbs up
December 22, 2010 - 4:29 pm
Doug, you can post your comments right here on the forum in any organizational form you prefer. I'm not totally sure I understand your comment about the outline format, sotTo be clear—what's being commented on are USGBC's new drafts of LEED, not my own commentary posted on the top of this section. Those drafts are quite well organized in the way you note.This forum is simply organized by threads that people post—so it's up to them.
Doug Hampton
Cx AgentAlvine Engineering
25 thumbs up
December 22, 2010 - 4:38 pm
Format:
A.
1.
a.
B. 1
a.
b.
2.
etc.
That way it would be easier to comment on a single word or sentence.
The copy of the BD&C Redline that I downloaded was sectioned, but no numbers or letters. I will paste my comments in the next post. Thanks for your quick reply.
Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11474 thumbs up
December 22, 2010 - 4:40 pm
I see. That's up to USGBC—seems like a good public comment fo them!. LEEDuser is an independent publication. We are trying to provide a forum to foster dialogue about and improvement of LEED.
Doug Hampton
Cx AgentAlvine Engineering
25 thumbs up
December 22, 2010 - 4:48 pm
It appears as if the site removed the spaces between the letters and number of the format I suggested. Without proper spacing, number, ittalics, etc, it will be almost impossible to read my comments.
So where do I submit my concerns for the commissioning sections? I have them in word form, and they are somewhat specific. I can certainly put them here in a generic statement, if necessary. The USGBC site says that there is an online comment form, that I can not find. If you could direct me to that document, that would be great. Thanks.
Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11474 thumbs up
December 22, 2010 - 4:52 pm
I'd be delghted if you can share your comments in general form here. Here is a link to USGBC"s page, but you might not like the format they provide any better.
Doug Hampton
Cx AgentAlvine Engineering
25 thumbs up
December 22, 2010 - 5:17 pm
Our concerns are many, but I will list the major ones. There are many new items added to the "Commissioned Systems": Building envelope, testing of air flows, Roofing materials and installation, water systems including irrigation. This will add to the scope of the CxA, and greatly increase cost for an owner, but my concern is who is intended to perform these test and verifications? The CxA typically will witness the tests and do the paper work. The addition of the data center sections in the sections need definition. The NEC defines a data center. In this section a "data center" is defined as a space of 20 watts/square foot or more. Is this active or passive? this could be any telecom room. This is a very short summary, considering the review items filled three pages, but in conclusion, our concerns are two fold. Since cx is a prerequisite, the customer will now be paying triple the cost. Are CxA firms expected to absorb all of these new responsibilities? Also, I still can not find the "Online comment form" required by usgbc. See below.
Guidelines for submitting comments:
•Comments are only accepted via the "online comment form."
•Each respondent may submit only one set of comments on any individual credit.
•Comments may not be edited once submitted.
•Representatives of USGBC member and non-member organizations are encouraged to submit comments collectively.
Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11474 thumbs up
December 22, 2010 - 5:28 pm
Doug, if you scroll down just below the text you pasted ("Guidelines") you'll see three buttons to the lower right—"Expand." Click on these and proceed.
Erik Dyrr
Director, Sustainable Buildings and OperationsKEMA
80 thumbs up
January 12, 2011 - 12:55 pm
Doug- I agree that the new requirements will significantly effect the cost of commissioning. Given that the general population of owners do not understand Cx today, the price tag on Cx will blow them away. Specifically the requirements for, 1.) A water vapor transmission analysis of all exterior envelope types used in the building, and 2.) Confirm building envelope materials and their installation are in compliance with the contract documents.
Not only do these activities increase cost, in labor, they present a much greater level of liability to the CxA. Higher liability=higher cost. Given these cost implications, I don't believe Cx can be considered cost effective for most projects.
I also agree that many Cx firms do not have the expertise to perform envelope testing. But we too have to learn and take the next step.
Doug Hampton
Cx AgentAlvine Engineering
25 thumbs up
January 17, 2011 - 5:59 pm
Erik, thank you for reviewing my comments and posting a response. Our firm is proactive and will meet the requirements. That being said, roles and responsibilities are very important when trying to train and hire staff to meet the requirments. The more information the better. Tristan, how/when should I expect to hear the committies response to my questions? Thanks.
Tristan Roberts
RepresentativeVermont House of Representatives
LEEDuser Expert
11474 thumbs up
January 17, 2011 - 6:06 pm
Doug, regarding a response to your comments, I don't think specific comments necessarily receive a response from the technical committees. Over 3,000 public comments are expected in all for this round. Also, I need to reiterate that our organization is not a part of the USGBC and we are simply facilitating this conversaton with USGBC's cooperation.