Currently FF&E (~Division 12) falls under the all or nothing when it comes to use for Recycled Content and/or Regional Materials. However, there are some items such as Bike Racks, which fall under Division 12, that are clearly not FF&E. If I include Bike Racks in my calculation, am I then obligated to include all FF&E in the calculations?
Thanks!
Renee Shirey
Stantec422 thumbs up
January 31, 2017 - 12:08 pm
Per Masterspecs, bike racks belong to 323300 Site Furnishings, so I personally would include it. If anything you are uploading for review references a Div 12 spec number, you could write a note on it that it was incorrectly categorized and should be spec 323300, thus it should be included.
RETIRED
LEEDuser Expert
623 thumbs up
January 31, 2017 - 12:27 pm
Just wanted to note that in MasterFormat 2004, which LEED 2009 references all bicycle racks are in 12 93 13. (In MasterFormat 2014, interior bicycle racks stay in 12 93 13 but exterior racks move to 32 33 13 Site Bicycle Racks.) I would not include bike racks in Division 32 3x xx in LEED 2009.
Note: Division 12 in MasterFormat 2004 is Furnishings - not FF&E. Per a meeting at Greenbuild 2015 in GBCI Certification Work Zone, Kristen Vachon Vogel (a Certification Reviewer) followed up with me regarding Division 12: "In NC v2009, Div 12 may be included or excluded, as long as it is done consistently throughout the project. If included, all items in Div 12 must be included in the denominator (Total Materials Cost), unless otherwise noted in the guidance (ex. artwork and plants are to be excluded)."
Michael Sugar III
Vice PresidentForcon International Corp.
4 thumbs up
January 31, 2017 - 1:53 pm
Ok, thank you, I will review and determine how to move forward. Interesting that exterior bike racks, which really fall under sitework, would be included in Division 12.
Jon Clifford
LEED-AP BD+CGREENSQUARE
LEEDuser Expert
327 thumbs up
February 1, 2017 - 11:32 pm
Everything Michelle says above is correct, but at this year’s GBCI Certification Work Zone, I asked a question that added another wrinkle to this discussion. The reviewer that I spoke to noted that a project team might be permitted to include materials specified outside the prescribed MasterFormat sections if they obtain a formal interpretation from USGBC before attempting to include such materials in MR Credit calculations (See http://www.leeduser.com/comment/redirect/67185).
Personally, I have always found the “all-or-nothing” Division 12 interpretation problematic because CSI, which developed early versions of MasterFormat in the 1960’s, never intended its classifications for use quite the way that LEED applies them. Division 12 includes some typically “base-building,” permanent constructions, such as restroom countertops, while some non-permanent, movable items fall into Divisions 03-10 (like storage shelving in Div10). This puts the requirement to include all “permanently installed” materials squarely at odds with the MasterFormat designations. Also, relying exclusively on Spec Divisions sometimes leaves it to the whims of the Spec writer and the idiosyncrasies of a 50-year-old indexing system to determine what counts toward LEED and what doesn’t. For my part, I have usually excluded Division 12 entirely. However, if I were to consider including certain, permanently installed items from Division 12 (or other non-standard CSI Sections), I would first post an inquiry to make sure that my rationale for doing so was valid.
Oops! I have wandered off-topic. Keep in mind that credits MRc3 through MRc7 are all weighted by cost. Items such as bike racks typically make up such a tiny percentage of a project’s overall materials budget that it makes little difference whether or not to include them in the cost tallies for these credits.
Debra a. Lombard
Construction Administrator/ LEED APBywater Woodworks, Inc.
47 thumbs up
March 29, 2017 - 6:41 pm
I remember reading but can't find now a statement, I think from a LI or addenda but not sure, that one can include certain items from MEP in the materials credits. Anyone know where to find that exact (correct) language? I definitely saw that because it really surprised me and I remember thinking - wow that's a new one.
Deborah Lucking
Director of SustainabilityFentress Architects
LEEDuser Expert
258 thumbs up
March 29, 2017 - 7:25 pm
It's in LEEDv4 - under MR Overview in the Reference Manual - "In past versions of LEED, all mechanical, plumbing, and electrical equipment (MEP), categorized as CSI MasterFormat divisions 11, 21-28, and other specialty divisions, was excluded from MR credits. In this version of LEED some specific products that are part of these systems but are “passive” (meaning not part of the active portions of the system) may be included in credit calculations. This allows flexibility for the optional assessment of piping, pipe insulation, ducts, duct insulation, conduit, plumbing fixtures, faucets, showerheads, and lamp housings. If optional products or materials are included in cost-based credit calculations, such as Option 2 under each Building Product Disclosure and Optimization credits, they must be included consistently across all cost-based credit calculations. Additionally, if optional products and materials are included in product based calculations, such as Option 1 under each Building Product Disclosure and Optimization credits, they are not required to be included in cost-based credit calculations. However, unlike furniture, if some of these products are included in credit calculations, not all products of that type must be included.
Special equipment, such as elevators, escalators, process equipment, and fire suppression, systems, is excluded from the credit calculations. Also excluded are products purchased for temporary use on the project, like formwork for concrete."
Good catch!
Jon Clifford
LEED-AP BD+CGREENSQUARE
LEEDuser Expert
327 thumbs up
March 29, 2017 - 8:10 pm
Debra—As noted in Deborah’s excerpt, LEEDv4 projects can include MEP materials in the MR credits, but LEED-2009 projects cannot. (An ancient CIR also allowed MEP to be included in pre-LEED-2009 projects, but that ruling is no longer valid.) Since you are posting in the LEED-2009 forum, I assume you are working on a LEED-2009 project. For that project, you cannot include MEP.
Debra a. Lombard
Construction Administrator/ LEED APBywater Woodworks, Inc.
47 thumbs up
April 7, 2017 - 2:12 pm
Hi Jon,
Yes I had remembered including hvac duct/ pipe insulation previously (v2.2). That's good to know the background/ history of that between LEED versions.
I don't really want to switch to LEED v 4 for materials however as it seems too complicated to try to learn for this already complicated project. I greatly appreciate your assistance.
Hi Deborah,
I am very appreciative of your assistance on this topic.
It's been a long time since I was on the LEED M&R TAG. Sometimes I feel like they have gone back and forth on some topics that for some issues I'm not sure of the current CIR for my 2009 project. The CIR search function is not perfect and thus using CIR search only can sometimes lead one down the wrong path.
I'm glad you both set me straight :")
Regards,
Debra