Electric battery storage is becoming cost effective in CA with our incentive programs and we are strongly considering it on a few projects, especially those with solar PV. We are debating if it will reduce our scoring on EAc1 and EAc2 because we will effectively reduce the % contribution of renewables in EAc2 which will also impact EAc1 model. The counter argument is that both credits are calculated on energy cost so in the final calcs it should not impact the scoring of either credit. I don’t know if you’ve run across this situation yet; I imagine it’s fairly unique in the market. I also checked v2009 Ref Guide and it’s silent on storage. Thanks for any wisdom you can impart!
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Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
February 17, 2014 - 11:10 am
Assuming off-grid and batteries charged by renewables only I would think that you would count the output from the batteries used by the project as renewable output. So your renewable output would be the PV used directly by the project plus the battery output used by the project accounting for any storage losses and dump loads.
So your EAc1 and EAc2 impacts could be slightly affected in this scenario. The cost is determined by the output times the virtual rate so if the output is affected the scoring could be affected.
Andrea Traber
Integral Group2 thumbs up
February 17, 2014 - 11:14 am
This is a grid intertied situation and batteries are being considered to manage demand and peak loads. Seems the same philosophy would apply. I think we will need to run the number through the templates to determine outcomes. Are you aware of any CIRs on the subject?
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
February 17, 2014 - 12:03 pm
Am not aware of any LEED Interpretations on the subject but I have not looked for one either.
The only difference is that there would be no dump load so other than some losses associated with the storage there would be no difference in the renewable output.
Hernando Miranda
OwnerSoltierra LLC
344 thumbs up
February 17, 2014 - 12:56 pm
The LEED Platinum Audubon Center at Debs Park, which is located in the Los Angeles area, has an off-the-grid PV system with battery storage. The project also featured solar space heating-cooling and solar hot water heating
There was a LEED energy analysis and a "real-world" energy analysis.
A LEED energy analysis only cares about the energy code. The LEED reviewers forced the project to model a natural gas connection to the grid for some of the loads. The energy code assumes the owner will abandon the off-the-grid approach. A LEED energy analysis is not realistic for an off-the-grid project.
For the "real-world" energy analysis--which I did--all of the loads were estimated using a spreadsheet with estimated hours of operation on a monthly basis. This analysis not only included the energy use of the standard energy code systems, but also estimated hours of use for equipment such as, computers, copiers, fountain water pumps, and even site maintenance tools (e.g. electric drills).
The photovoltaic system was sized based on the ability of the system to meet the electricity energy use demand for the critical energy using month. The critical months ended up being December and January when the photovoltaic system generated the least amount of power. During the summer the photovoltaic system generated more power than the building required.
Andrea Traber
Integral Group2 thumbs up
February 17, 2014 - 1:11 pm
Thanks, Hernando, this is helpful too.
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
February 17, 2014 - 1:34 pm
An off-grid project is basically net zero so you would earn all the LEED points pretty much no matter the calculations. Using a spreadsheet to estimate energy use, however, has significant limitations since it does not account for the interactive effects of the various building systems but maybe I am misinterpreting what you are saying Hernando.
Sounds really odd that the reviewer would have required any natural gas usage unless there was some fossil fuel heat in the design?
For LEED if you have a net zero project you would not even have to model the baseline. Just show the renewable production equals or exceeds the proposed consumption and verify that the proposed has been modeled as designed. You achieve 100% savings, done!
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
February 17, 2014 - 1:35 pm
Now if you are going after the M&V credit, then you would need to model the baseline.