Forum discussion

ASHRAE 90.1-2016 - appendix G. PCI calculation - feedback

Hi all,

I wanted to reach out to fellow MEP energy modeling teams to assess everyone's experience with the new PCI calculation methodology in 2016. It was a substantial change in how we show savings on projects. Big changes can often come with un-intended consequences. I'm all for pushing to higher efficiency - just want to make sure we can tell our owners the right story of how things are changing.

In personal experience, we've had some surprises for some building types.  This has been especially challenging with owners that have 20%-30% better than latest ASHRAE requirements. I also sit on the 189.1 committee which uses even more stringent BPF factors - so I'm curious on feedback from a future code development standpoint.

If willing to share, it would be great to get some feedback from this group on this thread.  If anyone would rather discuss offline, outside of the larger group, shoot me a note and I'll set up a call. 

I'll propose the numerical scale below as an informal survey.  Please reply with a number and/or other comments.

1 - 2016 is much less stringent, easy to meet

5 - 2016 is incrementally tougher - typical for new ASHRAE 90.1 cycle

10 - 2016 is much more stringent, very tough to meet

 

Thanks!

P.S. My response is 8.5

 

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Mon, 10/19/2020 - 21:35

In our limited experience, it appears that 90.1-2016 using the BPF is much more stringent, in the 8.5 to 9.5 neighborhood. Especially when architects give us  floor to floor curtain wall for an envelope.  "But this building wants to be transparent..." - and I want to date Heidi Klum.   We are very much in favor of the simplified modeling approach for the baseline that easily allows users to compare performance against multiple standards without rerunning the energy model.  The downside is all the ECMs for the regulated energy use are baked into the BPF.  If the user isn’t modeling the same level of savings performance for, say a mandatory ECM, as what was modeled in the prototype model to create the BPF, you are starting at an energy deficit.    We need greater transparency and guidance on how the various ECMs were modeled for each building type in each climate zone to understand how that should be reproduced in our proposed models in the various modeling software packages in order to have any level of equivalency.   There is also the issue of exceptions.  We are not aware of any means to account for an ECM that is already baked into the BPF that may not be applicable to a particular project due to an exception to the requirement.

Mon, 10/19/2020 - 21:49

Adam, great post, thanks for asking the question.  I agree with you and Kim.  I am at a 9 - 9.5. In NYC projects have had the option to use PCI or Section 11 for code compiance since the 2016 Energy Code (NYC adopted the PCI method as an option in 2016).  We have yet to use PCI as the compliance metric as almost universially Section 11 is more forgiving.  This is also true in my brief experience with the 2020 NYC code (and LEED v4.1). Curious if others have the same experience.  

Fri, 10/23/2020 - 15:36

Thank you Kim and Jeffrey.  Kim, I hadn't thought about how exceptions may influence the project outcomes based on scope.  that's a really important point. How about others, what has been your experience?

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