Hello Everyone,
I'm working with UL to deal with fraudulent Greenguard certificates. I often reserach products on their UL Spot database and when I cannot find a certificate, I ask the manufacturer for their general emissions certificate, expecting a certificate from a different certifying body. There have been two instances where a manufacturer sends me a Greenguard certificate which takes me by surprise because I have already searched for it. I then search for it again, with certificate in hand, and cannot find it. I send the certificate to UL to verify if it is valid since it's not in their database, it turned out it's not legitimate. The only reason I checked the certificate once I received it is to check if I'm crazy because I couldn't find it the first time.
In both cases, it was for fabric used in widow shades, two different manufacturers, two completely unrelated cases. This is what's happening: fabric manufacturer gets fabric A certified, shade manufacturer buys fabric A and markets it as fabric B when they sell window shades. My solution to this is to have the shade manufacturer provide a letter stating the name of the fabric A and the name of fabric B under which they market it. I submit this letter along with the original, legitimate certificate. UL agrees this is an acceptable solution.
All this to say, if for some reason you are in this situation, please contact UL to verify the certificate if you feel something is off. UL needs to ensure the integrity of their certification system is maintained.
LEED documentation is onerous enough, no one needs to deal with fraud on top of it!
Debra a. Lombard
Construction Administrator/ LEED APBywater Woodworks, Inc.
47 thumbs up
April 15, 2020 - 6:32 pm
I found something similiar but slightly different. As the GC's LEED Coordinatorn, I'd get (M)SDS sheets submitted from a Subcontactor and the VOC # in g/l would be different than what the VOCs would be on a SDS I find online from the Mfgr's website and then even sometimes that VOC # would differ from what the Mfgr's Rep would send me and then even sometimes the product's TDS on the Mfgr website would have yet a different # for VOCs. So best to double check VOCs received with what you find on Mfgr website and then if needed contact Mfgr. This has happened many times.
In some cases the Sub will send over an Old SDS and the Mfgr website has the newer SDS with sometimes revised formulation this different VOCs.
Deborah Lucking
Director of SustainabilityFentress Architects
LEEDuser Expert
258 thumbs up
April 15, 2020 - 7:10 pm
I have found that too, Debra. Good on you for checking - you are the rare coordinator on the GC's side that actually verifies the information you receive!
Lou Niles II
Senior Sustainability StrategistGlumac
14 thumbs up
April 15, 2020 - 7:22 pm
Hello in a warning similar I am seeing compnaies filling out HPD's that do not qualify. Not knowing what to look for a Project Team could submit these HPD's thinking they are valid and they are not. Companies taking advantage ot the lack of 3rd party verification. A good reason to pursue third party verification or make sure you have a strong LEED AP on the project.
Scott Laughlin
Product ManagerUL
10 thumbs up
April 17, 2020 - 9:57 am
Thank you for sharing your story, Sophie. We are working with the parties involved to ensure that our correct process for private label/alternate product naming is followed. We have dedicated market surveillance teams that look for situations like you have described, but it is always helpful to be notified if project teams or other certificate users ever see something fishy going on. Please send us an email to environment@ul.com if you have any questions or issues to report.
Debra a. Lombard
Construction Administrator/ LEED APBywater Woodworks, Inc.
47 thumbs up
April 17, 2020 - 12:32 pm
Niles, we greatly appreciate you bringing to our attention the issue of HPD's. I you can elaborate on why you believe & can discern those HPD's were not valid, that would be very helpful for all. Thank you! Debra
Lou Niles II
Senior Sustainability StrategistGlumac
14 thumbs up
April 20, 2020 - 7:27 pm
Hello Debra, I would rather not call out manufacturers directly as they may not be doing it on purpose but I find HPD's that do not have the right information and have not shown compliance. The manufacturer has gone through the exercise of creating an HPD and will send it to you when you ask for it. A "newby" if you will or a person not knowing all the details to look for in a Valid HPD will submit this HPD as valid. Or a builder or owner may accept that document and make a choice to uintsall a product that actually does not meet compliance. I have seen this from companies that a huge LEED supporters (so assuming they made a mistake or didn't know what they were doing in filling out the HPD). I have seen this from comnpanies that have not meet the ppm and have not met the disclosure but to the unknowing eye the document looks like an HPD, says HPD, has the product name etc. Just trying to press specifiers to know more about what makes a document compliant. Lou
why would you even have a document documenting Health delcaraltions about your producst and have it show your produts is nopt valid or does not meet compliance.