I am sure someone has pursued SSc4.3 in CalGreen territory. Are you able to double-count the CalGreen designate parking spaces for Clean Air Vehicles and the Fuel Efficient, Alternative Fuel Vehicles for SSc4.3 in LEED? If so, how have you designated the spaces to meet the LEED and CalGreen requirements?
From what I can tell, the LEED requirement is more specific than the CalGreen requirement and a car that qualifies for CalGreen may not qualify for LEED SSc4.3. I have reviewed the Stopwaste CalGreen and LEED guide mentioned above. The suggestion in the guide, if I understand correctly, is to erect the sign meeting LEED requirements and to paint the stall according to the Cal Green requirements. Would this not then allow a car not qualifying for LEED SSc4.3 (not SSc4.4), but meeting CalGreen requirements (for example a carpool vehicle) park in the space?
Suggestions for compliance?
Thanks!
Eric Shamp
Associate Vice PresidentCannonDesign
68 thumbs up
June 18, 2012 - 6:59 pm
Wow. At first read, I thought this was an easy question to answer. The more I think about it, I realize it’s not. If you follow the StopWaste recommendation and double-mark stalls with CALGreen language on the ground (allowing both clean-air and carpool vehicles) and add LEED language on a sign (allowing only clean-air vehicles), it seems that you won’t have true CALGreen-compliant stalls, because the LEED signage would forbid carpool vehicles. LEED cannot be allowed create a code violation. It also becomes enormously confusing to drivers.
The idea of setting aside as much as 13% of total stalls so that the project can comply with both CALGreen and LEED separately would be a non-starter for most building owners.
Maybe we could look at this from a LEED reviewer’s perspective. The CALGreen stalls are clearly marked “CLEAN AIR VEHICLE”. LEED SSc4.3 is not prescriptive about exactly how preferred parking stalls should be designated. This makes it difficult for a LEED reviewer to say that the CALGreen marking is not appropriate for SSc4.3 compliance. Maybe they know the broader CALGreen definition of “clean air vehicle”, maybe they don’t, but it isn’t really in their job description to invoke CALGreen code. So, I’ve been recommending that project teams use the CALGreen markings only, with the number of stalls determined by whichever measure (LEED or CALGreen) results in the highest number, making sure that at least 5% of total stalls are in preferred locations. I have a couple of LEED/CALGreen projects getting close to LEED design review, and I’ll post back with the results.
If you need a rock-solid answer, you’ll have to submit a Project CIR, but keep in mind that you’ll have to request a $220 Project CIR for every single project, since those now only apply to discrete projects. If you and your client would like to become heroes to the LEEDuser community, you could request a LEED Interpretation, which takes 3-6 months and $400. If you do, I’ll send you a personal note of thanks!
It’s all a little silly, though. Ultimately, the real execution of this LEED credit and/or CALGreen measure depends entirely on post-development enforcement, which is an operational measure that falls outside of the reach of both LEED-NC and CALGreen.
Sonrisa Lucero
Owner / Energy Engineer / Sustainability ConsultantSustainnovations, LLC
138 thumbs up
June 18, 2012 - 7:13 pm
Eric,
Thanks for the prompt reply. I agree it's all a bit silly as the intent is the same whether it's a carpool or a fuel-efficient vehicle - but they have to divide it into two credits and add the parking restriction to SSc4.4 which we will not meet.
Please do post back with you results after your reviews. If I find anything more out I will be sure to post back. Maybe I can talk the owner into 10% and push LEED to accept the Clean Air Vehicle standard that is not space specific (in a sense the 4.3 and 4.4 requirements with non-specific signage and we just don't go for 4.4). Too much brain damage!
If anyone else has experience or ideas, they are much appreciated!
Thanks!
Amy Rider
Sustainability ManagerKEMA Services
161 thumbs up
June 19, 2012 - 11:47 am
While I agree that it is confusing to those using the parking stalls, the symbols and nomenclature around "green" parking spaces continues to evolve, in each version of CALGreen and a few LEED versions.
Here is my current recommendation:
LEED allows dual-purpose signage for carpool/vanpool and "low emitting vehicle" as long as there are enough total spaces to comply with both credit requirements. Signage that defines"clean air vehicles" should be compliant with LEED and CALGreen. However, as with all things CALGreen, talk with your building official to make sure they understand and agree with your rationale.
Sonrisa Lucero
Owner / Energy Engineer / Sustainability ConsultantSustainnovations, LLC
138 thumbs up
June 27, 2012 - 8:38 pm
Thanks, for the reply Amy. Just to be clear, you are suggesting the work around is to up the stall percentage to 10% and label sufficiently for both LEED SSc4.3-4.4 and for CalGreen (even if only going for SSc4.3), correct?
Thanks again!