Forum discussion
NC-2009 EAp2: Minimum Energy Performance
is the electrical rooms and internal swimming pools cooling is considered as a process load or not?
and what leed reviewer should see in the energy model output.
regards
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Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
June 4, 2012 - 9:03 am
Electrical room cooling often follows one of the exceptions under G3.1.1. Technically it is a process load.
Swimming pools are sort of semi-process. Some components are included in Section 7.4.5 and are mandatory provisions. The water heating itself may be considered process. The space conditioning is not process.
Tarek Dalati
Sustainbility managerCRHI
92 thumbs up
June 4, 2012 - 9:23 am
Marcus,
Thank you for your quick response.
can you help me in answering the following questions:
1-in the building i am modeling for leed I have a fan coil cooling the bedroom which has a bathroom in it.I have modeled the bathroom as an unconditioned space and for the bedroom i have added exhaust is that correct.
2-in one side of the building the floor is curved so for the conditioned areas which has external walls and glazing I took 3 points instead of curve is that acceptable?
regards
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
5907 thumbs up
June 4, 2012 - 11:06 am
If the exhaust in in the bathroom then model it associated within that space.
It is ok to represent curved walls as faceted. How many facets depends on the size of the curve. That is the judgement of the modeler.
Tarek Dalati
Sustainbility managerCRHI
92 thumbs up
June 4, 2012 - 10:05 am
thank you marcus again for your reply.
but what did you mean by " model it with that space"
regards
Erin Adkins
Executive DirectorEmpirical Energy Solutions
29 thumbs up
June 4, 2012 - 10:12 am
You could model the bathroom as having transfer air coming in from the conditioned bedroom. I don't know what software you use, but in Trace you do this on the airflows tab of a room. This would account for the indirect conditioning effect the bathroom would receive as the exhaust fan pulls conditioned air from the adjacent space into the bathroom.
Tarek Dalati
Sustainbility managerCRHI
92 thumbs up
June 4, 2012 - 10:16 am
Hi Erin,
Thank you for your reply,
I am using equest,how is that possible using equest?
but in your opinion shall i model this toilet as part of the conditioned space ( total area-area of the room+ area of the troilet) and both are considered as one conditioned zone?
or shall i model the bathroom as unconditioned zone and the exhaust will be considered in the bedroom ( conditioned zone).
Thank you in advance.
Regards,
Erin Adkins
Executive DirectorEmpirical Energy Solutions
29 thumbs up
June 4, 2012 - 10:20 am
I'm personally most familiar with the Trace software, so I'm not sure on eQuest. You could model the square footage of the bathroom and bedroom together as a single thermal block. I'm pretty sure you don't want to model the bathroom as unconditioned or you won't be able to get thermal comfort credits later, as it won't meet ASHRAE 55 requirements.
Tarek Dalati
Sustainbility managerCRHI
92 thumbs up
June 4, 2012 - 10:27 am
But Ashrae 55 is only for conditioned spaces ...am I right?
and regarding lift lobbies and stair cases,corridors they are not air conditioned in the proposed design will that be the case in the baseline?
regards,
Erin Adkins
Executive DirectorEmpirical Energy Solutions
29 thumbs up
June 4, 2012 - 10:31 am
Its true that 55 is for conditioned spaces, but you'll have a hard time convincing the reviewers that it is truly an unconditioned space if the exhaust is drawing its make-up air FROM a conditioned space. If you are getting your make-up air form directly outside, you could call it unconditioned, but only if you are in a climate where temperatures never drop below freezing, otherwise you'll be freezing your pipes. If you have to add heat, then it becomes a conditioned space again, and has to be modelled with both heat and cooling in the baseline case. So, unless the locale is in very mild climate conditions, it will be difficult to call it unconditioned.
Tarek Dalati
Sustainbility managerCRHI
92 thumbs up
June 4, 2012 - 10:47 am
Erin,
Thank you again for your time.
So I can simply that a unconditioned space is the one which has no interconnection with a conditioned space like a unconditioned corridor ( without fresh ir or exhaust).
unconditioned mechanical room,unconditioned stair cases
right?
regards
Erin Adkins
Executive DirectorEmpirical Energy Solutions
29 thumbs up
June 4, 2012 - 10:51 am
They also have to be un-heated to be considered unconditioned though. If they are heated, the baseline building has to have both heat and air-conditioning modelled for those spaces.