Hi folks,
SSc5 - Heat Island Reduction
Core & Shell V4
Working on an office project with occupiable roofs on floors 3 – 8. Each outdoor patio consists of green roof and pavers. The pavers are set up on a pedestal system – below the pedestal system we hold water as a blue roof – all of that sitting upon “the roof” (insulation, weather barrier, deck, etc).
I’m trying to figure out what would be considered roof versus nonroof measure here in regard to the pavers. I’ve read up on a lot of the discussion on the forums though I haven’t seen something specifically addressing this in v4 (though I could be missing something).
In looking at the Option 1 equation for nonroof & roof: from previous posts I gather that the planted portions of the roofs are just that – “vegetated roof”. While the walkable paving that goes around the gardens would be considered “high reflectance roof” since it is the highest layer to the sky (these terraces all sit above conditioned space on the floor below).
However, I’m getting some pushback from the team wondering why the pavers above the blue roof wouldn’t be considered “nonroof” measures. The pavers sit upon what you could consider actual “roof” functions and the question has come up – “we can consider them nonroof when the pavers are on the ground level, why wouldn’t we also consider these same pavers on a pedestal system nonroof? Just b/c they’re up a higher?”. I do see some merit in that question so I wanted to put it to you all and see if we could drum up some consensus.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Tom
Summer Minchew
Managing PartnerEcoimpact Consulting
LEEDuser Expert
170 thumbs up
September 14, 2018 - 2:15 pm
I would consider the pavers as you describe to be "roof" in LEED v4. I have projects with very similar conditions and from what I understand GBCI is looking to differentiate the location of product installation not the product use. So that yes, you might have a paver at ground level being considered "non roof" and the same paver on the roof being considered "roof" within your calculator.
Emily Purcell
Sustainable Design LeadCannonDesign
LEEDuser Expert
370 thumbs up
September 14, 2018 - 2:40 pm
Agreed - the credit intent here is to mitigate heat island effect in the building and surrounding paved areas. The pavers may not be "roof" in terms of separating the building interior and exterior, but they are roof in terms of being the surface sunlight strikes.
Thomas Gibbons
ArchitectEskew Dumez Ripple Architects
1 thumbs up
September 14, 2018 - 3:02 pm
Understood - and that was what I was thinking based on previous research. Just good to have a sanity check. Thanks!
Susan Di Giulio
Senior Project ManagerZinner Consultants
153 thumbs up
March 17, 2021 - 8:52 pm
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Susan Di Giulio
Senior Project ManagerZinner Consultants
153 thumbs up
March 17, 2021 - 8:51 pm
The deal is that on a roof, you are looking at keeping the occupied space cooler, as well as urban heat island effect. That's why in v4 you have to use SR values on the ground (emittance is irrelevant) and SRI on the roof (emittance is important there).
But to help you, LEED v4.1 explicitly states that the surface of usable roof areas can be considered as a non-roof paver for calculation purposes. Just switch up the credit.
Jan Chlubna
Green business specialistSkanska
1 thumbs up
March 3, 2023 - 12:09 pm
Hi Susan,
just to be sure with the v4.1 claime: have your verified, by submitting documentation with an usable roof area as a non-roof measure, that this interpretation is correct?
v4.1 says: "Roof area that consists of functional, usable spaces (such as helipads, recreation courts, and similar amenity areas) may meet the requirements of nonroof measures."
Does it really mean that you count with this part of roof as a nonroof measure in the equation? I'd like to do it that way but it might also mean that usable part of roof may meet nonroof requirements (SR instead SRI) but it must be counted as a high-reflectance roof anyway.
Our team is attempting this option for the first time and we're pretty unsure about the interpretation. Thanks for any help!
Jan
emily reese moody
Sustainability Director, Certifications & ComplianceJacobs
LEEDuser Expert
476 thumbs up
April 5, 2024 - 6:32 pm
Susan or Jan, any follow-up here?
I agree with Summer and the other Emily, and that's how I've documented my similar projects, but it could just be that I haven't opted to use 4.1 for this credit and thus did not notice the difference...
Emily Purcell
Sustainable Design LeadCannonDesign
LEEDuser Expert
370 thumbs up
April 9, 2024 - 10:28 am
Now this thread is making me question my own memory, I could have sworn there was a LEED interpretation or ref guide language in v4 saying the same thing - that roof pavers or similar should follow nonroof measures. I interpreted this to mean that roof pavers would count as roof but can use the minimum SR rather than SRI for compliance.
I had been using my own Excel calculator to count up high reflectance areas, and used it to count high-SR pavers as compliant roof area. This was approved on one project, but then on my most recent one I got a comment that I must use the LEED Online form. And the LEED Online form does not let you enter SR in the roof table, only in the nonroof table. [That project didn't have occupiable roof, so that comment didn't affect this specific issue.]
I wish I could share something conclusive, but my own experience is mixed! So I'll just say, in terms of your submission, the LEED form (in both v4 and v4.1) only lets you report materials rated by their SR as nonroof measures, and materials rated by their SRI as roof measures.
If you want to call something roof but use SR, you'd need to build your own calculator and see if they allow it. Which is a subject for a whole nother thread (why can't I use my own form if the official form doesn't do what I need it to? Looking at you, v4.1 quality views!)
Glen Boldt
ZC Sustainability1 thumbs up
April 10, 2024 - 1:11 am
The quote you are looking for is at the top of p 65 of the LEED BD+C v4.1 Guide, as published July 2023:
"Roof area that consists of functional, usable spaces (such as helipads, recreation courts, and similar amenity areas) may meet the requirements of nonroof measures. Applicable roof area excludes roof area covered by mechanical equipment, solar energy panels, skylights, and any other appurtenances."
I would suggest using the v4.1 form and entering the occupiable roof area in the non-roof section, and uploading a brief narrative explaning what you are doing. Be sure to cite the quote I provided, in case you have a nervous reviewer.