See all forum discussions about NC-v4 EAp2
 Subscribe to new posts about NC-v4 EAp2 Post a new question aboutNC-v4 EAp2
See LEEDuser’s guidance on NC-v4 EAp2»
FAQs about EAp2 :

Do the required savings for this prerequisite (and credit) need to come only from building energy, or also process loads?

Our project doesn't have enough energy savings to earn the prerequisite. Can we get there by incorporating onsite renewables?

Our proposed design has insulation R-values that are below those prescribed by ASHRAE 90.1-2010. Can we still meet the prerequisite?

View answers »

Forum discussion

NC-v4 EAp2:Minimum energy performance

Swimming Pools Baseline Definition

Default Avatar
Ricardo Sá
Director of Sustainability
Edifícios Saudáveis Consultores (503 910 767)
LEEDuser Basic Member
79 thumbs up

Dear All,

 

we're currently certifying an hotel facility that includes indoor heated pools. In what relates to energy modeling, I have several questions I would like to see clarified:

 

  1. According to ASHRAE 90.1 2010 user manual, pools are included under the scope of service water heating. Do you confirm ?

 

  1. According to ASHRAE 90.1 2010, section 7.4.5.2, heated pools shall be equipped with pool covers, unless at least 60% of heating needs are supplied with site recovered energy or solar source energy. 

If proposed building is equipped with systems that ensures that more than 60% of swimming pool heating needs are supplied by recovered waste heat (and is, therefore exempt from the use of pool covers), but still has pool covers installed, baseline building shall be modelled without pool cover, right ?

 

  1. In what relates with water circulation pumps for pools, current local practice is to install constant speed pumps that keep running 24/7. We are evaluating the installation of variable speed pumps to lower pumps speed during unnocupied periods. Do you think this can be accounted as an improvement against baseline building?
0
Post a reply

You rely on LEEDuser. Can we rely on you?

LEEDuser is supported by our premium members, not by advertisers.

Go premium for $15.95  »

Profile picture for user sheffer
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow
7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
4452 thumbs up

Fri, 02/14/2020 - 17:26

Yes aspects of pool water heating are covered by the standard. Correct you would not model a pool cover in both models. Sounds like you might be able claim savings for the pumping using an exceptional calculation. 
Profile picture for user jamybacchus
Jamy Bacchus
Associate Principal
ME Engineers
LEEDuser Premium Member
29 thumbs up

Fri, 02/14/2020 - 23:28

Interesting Marcus. So you're using G2.4's exception to not have a pool cover in the baseline but require it to use the proposed's energy source for pool heat, right? I don't think I've run into that scenario. I have submitted pool pump VFDs as an ECM and was successful. We got the customary GBCI response:  The Baseline case description should verify that the efficiency measure is not standard practice for a similar newly constructed facility by providing a recently published document (published within five years of the project registration date), referencing a utility program that incentivizes the equipment installed, or by documenting systems used to perform the same function in other newly constructed facilities (three facilities built within the past five years of the project registration date).   This was a commercial pool about 2 yrs ago. I'm not sure if it's become standard practice. The local pool contractor provided us a dozen projects where they didn't provide VFDs.     
Profile picture for user sheffer
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow
7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
4452 thumbs up

Sat, 02/15/2020 - 23:01

Table G3.1-11 Baseline requires the use of the same fuel source in the baseline as the proposed design for service hot water so I am extending that same logic to pool water heating. If you end up with a heat pump water heater in both then I assume that both would reach the 60% threshold. Table 7.8 only lists an oil/gas pool water heater or a heat pump pool water heater so those systems would be the only baseline options and it makes no sense to compare gas to electric and visa versa. Your experience on the VFD sounds like what I would expect.

Mon, 12/23/2024 - 10:19

Hello! Is there an option to penalize the proposed energy model in case compliance with the manfatory porvisions for the swimming pools is not acheived?
Profile picture for user sheffer
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow
7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
4452 thumbs up

Mon, 12/23/2024 - 15:08

LEED requires that all mandatory of 90.1 provisions are achieved. I am not aware of any way exceptions as it relates to swimming pools. Your question is very general. Do you have something specific in mind and a specific proposal to penalize the proposed in response?

Thu, 01/09/2025 - 07:52

Just as in energy modeling for a hotel with heated pools, where specific rules and exceptions must be adhered to, the process of Book cover design uk online follows a set of guidelines to ensure the final product meets the desired standards. In your case, just like the rule that pool covers are exempt when more than 60% of heating is from recovered waste heat, a book cover design might have specific design elements that are required or optional based on the genre or target market. For instance, if the cover design follows a unique concept (like energy-saving features), it should still adhere to baseline standards, much like how a baseline building model is adjusted without pool covers in your example. The goal is to maintain a balance between creativity and practicality, ensuring that both energy efficiency and aesthetic appeal are achieved.

Tue, 03/04/2025 - 13:00

Swimming Pools Baseline Definition ensures standard pool specifications, covering design, safety, and maintenance. For businesses, custom Amazon listing services USA can enhance visibility of pool-related products, optimizing sales and customer reach.

Tue, 03/04/2025 - 13:07

Swimming Pools Baseline Definition ensures standard pool specifications, covering design, safety, and maintenance. For businesses, custom Amazon listing services USA can enhance visibility of pool-related products, optimizing sales and customer reach.
Profile picture for user jamybacchus
Jamy Bacchus
Associate Principal
ME Engineers
LEEDuser Premium Member
29 thumbs up

Wed, 04/02/2025 - 20:55

Is this a sales pitch? I'm not about to click on the link above to find out. Once upon a time when Nadav was running things links entered into posts were vetted prior to posting unless pre-cleared as a reputable person by LEEDuser. 
Profile picture for user sheffer
Marcus Sheffer
LEED Fellow
7group / Energy Opportunities
LEEDuser Expert
4452 thumbs up

Wed, 04/02/2025 - 21:11

Hey Jamy I have had to report some of these kinds of comments in the past. I will do so.

Sat, 04/05/2025 - 10:24

Great article! Just like cover letter writers help highlight key details, your focus on energy efficiency, like variable speed pumps and pool covers, is a smart approach to meet sustainability goals. Keep up the good work

Wed, 04/09/2025 - 15:09

One thing is clear, everything here is beautiful, you and me but if it is more beautiful, please share to spread this beauty. This is your Geometry Dash! Help me spread it to the top #1 of Google

Wed, 04/09/2025 - 15:09

Think of it like setting the baseline level in Geometry Dash—you start without any extra boosts (like the pool cover) to understand the true energy flow. Then, you add the enhancements (recovered heat) and see how it impacts the overall performance, just like how adding new abilities in the game affects your gameplay!

Thu, 04/10/2025 - 07:55

Yes, according to the ASHRAE 90.1 2010 user manual, pools are indeed included under the scope of service water heating. Similar to how Geometry Dash requires precision in every move, ensuring proper service water heating for pools demands accurate adherence to the guidelines for optimal performance.

Sat, 05/03/2025 - 10:42

When doing energy modeling for indoor heated pools, ASHRAE 90.1-2010 says pools are part of service water heating. If more than 60% of pool heating comes from recovered heat, the baseline model doesn’t need to include a pool cover, even if the real building has one. Also, using variable speed pumps instead of constant speed ones, especially during times when the pool is not used, can help save energy and should be seen as an improvement. Just like using iron on patches for clothes to make small but useful changes, these upgrades can add value to the building's performance.

Add new comment

To post a comment, you need to register for a LEEDuser Basic membership (free) or login to your existing profile.